I was asked to set up a basic...

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Juany118, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    You make a good point that a broken hand doesn't cost much in the moment if you break it with a fight-ending strike.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    You hit upon one of the potential issues for classes like this. There's not enough time to customize training to individuals (for instance one of my long-term students had 8 years of Shotokan, so I didn't bother to teach him any strikes - just adapted his application). My experience with these classes is that people with a clinch-and-jab mindset don't tend to show up. The vast majority will be folks who are predisposed to slaps, or not particularly predisposed to hitting with any organization at all.
     
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  3. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    The point about force behind a palm strike vs. a punch - that really depends on how that force is being measured. (Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the provided link...)

    If it's simply 'weight behind it' then they're likely to be very close, and if you're measuring 'knockout power' based on a random placement on the head there's not much in it. That's because the actual weapon becomes the skull against the brain.

    Anywhere else though, it's different. A palm to the ribs will spread the force from the strike over multiple ribs because you're dealing with maybe 6 square inches. A punch of the same force though, that's down to 2 square inches, so the force over area is 3 times greater.

    Here's a very extreme example - get a hypodermic needle and measure the force required to pierce skin. Now get a brick and apply the same force (you'll have to support the majority of the brick's weight) - does the brick break the skin?

    The area over which the force is applied is instrumental in assessing how much damage anything can cause.

    If someone is an instinctive slap wielder you won't convert them to punching even if you spend the whole 16 hours on that single subject.

    The inverse is also true though, my sister (who has had no training whatsoever, never even an hour sd "class") is an instinctive puncher. If she was to attend a short course where she was compelled to palm it wouldn't work. At best, in a stress situation, it would be forgotten and she'd punch - at worst though, it'd make her question her instinct ("but I've been told that's wrong") and that delay might stop her getting any strike in at all. When does a good intention become a disservice?


    Considering (what I assume to be) the nature of this course, you're not doing it as a striking lesson. I imagine you should be covering situational awareness, de-escalation and all the other buzzwords - so you'll have a couple of hours left for the physical side.

    Personally, I'd start the striking portion with "hit this pad", and see how they do it...
     
  4. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Although, like I said there's degrees of broken. If you crack your scaphoid you might not notice it while the adrenaline is pumping and probably be able to continue punching. Still broken though.

    If 3 metacarpals snap and make a bid for freedom through the back of your hand, that's probably game over ;)

    If there's not enough time to even partially tailor it, should striking (over just saying hit/claw/bite) be covered at all?

    Is it correct to try getting someone with no predisposition to hit in any way to hit in any way?
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    If they have no predisposition to hitting, at all, they are unlikely to get to hitting in that amount of time. I used the term "with any organization" on purpose - as long as they are predisposed to hitting, I can improve the "how" and organization of it a bit. The really timid, all I can probably do in a short course is improve the chance that they'll connect. They need more time and effort to overcome that habit and build something useful. For those folks, I want to give them a taste of the training, so they can make an intelligent decision as to whether they're interested in digging deeper.
     
  6. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    If it's marketed like that then that's perfectly fine.

    If the customers are coming into it knowing it's about self awareness etc. with a little bit of physical self defence (as well as being a bit of a primer to advance) - that's great.

    If that's the format the OP was intending, brilliant.

    The type that really rile me are "learn to defeat any attacker in 3 easy classes"...

    I'm not entirely sure there's much of a middle ground.
     
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  7. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    As an aside:

    Now that the term "SD" has been used so much, I'm getting "SD event" adverts...

    Screenshot_20180223-162116.png
     
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  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Hey video guy. How about you put your head in exactly the same position you did when he punched.

    And then we will see what happens to your palm strike.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah, that kind of marketing hype chafes me, too.
     
  10. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    What you speak of is exactly what I am talking about. I would NEVER think I could teach someone, in as little as 8 hours, how to really fight. My premise is "avoid, respond, run" not "fight to drop them". So it's primarily about doing everything you can to avoid the situation to start. If that fails basic and easy to learn techniques that can (nothing is certain) create an opening to flee. That way they gain some sense of empowerment/confidence (which is part of "target hardening", which is part of "avoid" imo). Then ram home the point that it is about escaping/running away.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018

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