How will Tai Chi help me become a better martial artist?

[JowGaWolf]

This is a video of me using what I learned in Tai Chi to set up a sweep.
Background: Friendly sparring- I'm the guy in the long pants
Part of Tai Chi that I used: The sensitivity and awareness of body movement that comes from moving slow and doing push hand exercises. I didn't plan this it just happened, but the sweep was intentional. I knew the sweep would work, I just didn't know it would be that effective when I launched it. The part of Tai Chi that I used was internal so you aren't going to see any Tai Chi moves.

Short story: My opponent pressured me with a series of combo punches and I swept him.

What I was able to sense as he was advancing and pushing me: When he came in I could feel that he was light on his feet and that he wasn't punching while he was rooted. To me if felt like he was lighter on one side as if his body was wobbling left and right. This instantly made me want to sweep when he was off balance and not rooted.
One of the things I learned really quick with push hands is that the slightest movement gives away your intent and the stability of a stance. It looks really boring but there is a chess match of sensory information going on at the point of contact. In my case the point of contact was him punching me. Tai Chi also teaches like Zeny has mention, "don't fight force with force" The best non tai chi example of this would be to tell your friend to push your shoulder while you resist. Then to tell him to do the same thing, but this time let your shoulder give with the push. Allowing your shoulder to give will allow the force to pass by you and not into you. You will also cause your friend to lose balance in which presents an opportunity for you to strike.

Having Tai Chi used on you will be like losing balance in one direction only to be pushed in a totally different direction while trying to regain balance. So when you feel you are moving forward and your body is preparing to deal with forward movement, Tai Chi steps in and sends your body in a totally different direction. The only thing that makes this possible is a strong root which is what you'll definitely got from Tai Chi.

Things to take note in the video.: Take note of my foot movement vs my opponents foot movement. You can see me rooting vs how his feet are sliding around (which was the light feeling that I was sensing). I didn't know until now but it looks like I had a little repulse monkey foot work going on too. If that is the case then it wasn't intentional. Tai Chi just blends really well even if the strikes aren't tai chi.

 

[zzj]

This is a video of me using what I learned in Tai Chi to set up a sweep.
Background: Friendly sparring- I'm the guy in the long pants
Part of Tai Chi that I used: The sensitivity and awareness of body movement that comes from moving slow and doing push hand exercises. I didn't plan this it just happened, but the sweep was intentional. I knew the sweep would work, I just didn't know it would be that effective when I launched it. The part of Tai Chi that I used was internal so you aren't going to see any Tai Chi moves.

Short story: My opponent pressured me with a series of combo punches and I swept him.

What I was able to sense as he was advancing and pushing me: When he came in I could feel that he was light on his feet and that he wasn't punching while he was rooted. To me if felt like he was lighter on one side as if his body was wobbling left and right. This instantly made me want to sweep when he was off balance and not rooted.
One of the things I learned really quick with push hands is that the slightest movement gives away your intent and the stability of a stance. It looks really boring but there is a chess match of sensory information going on at the point of contact. In my case the point of contact was him punching me. Tai Chi also teaches like Zeny has mention, "don't fight force with force" The best non tai chi example of this would be to tell your friend to push your shoulder while you resist. Then to tell him to do the same thing, but this time let your shoulder give with the push. Allowing your shoulder to give will allow the force to pass by you and not into you. You will also cause your friend to lose balance in which presents an opportunity for you to strike.

Having Tai Chi used on you will be like losing balance in one direction only to be pushed in a totally different direction while trying to regain balance. So when you feel you are moving forward and your body is preparing to deal with forward movement, Tai Chi steps in and sends your body in a totally different direction. The only thing that makes this possible is a strong root which is what you'll definitely got from Tai Chi.

Things to take note in the video.: Take note of my foot movement vs my opponents foot movement. You can see me rooting vs how his feet are sliding around (which was the light feeling that I was sensing). I didn't know until now but it looks like I had a little repulse monkey foot work going on too. If that is the case then it wasn't intentional. Tai Chi just blends really well even if the strikes aren't tai chi.

Nice clip you have there, would've liked to see more though.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nice clip you have there, would've liked to see more though.

Well you saw the important parts as related to the post lol. The rest was him just hitting me with combos up top and me moving so the punches didn't land solid. To be honest in the full video it looks like I'm in trouble. The full clip will be online in the near future just as soon as I get some more footage of the students sweeping and using their foot work.

 

[zzj]

Jowgawolf, thanks for sharing your training method. It believe it is an effective way to train.

Let me share mine. I practise huang taichi, and we practise a lot of push hands, and no sparring. The push hands are done free style, with no set patterns, mostly slowly, sometimes at normal (natural) movement speed and fast speed. This is when we practise the taichi principles, such as relaxation, upright body, sticking, don't fight force with force, etc. Very little emphasis is placed on individual techniques.

The idea is that as we become more and more relaxed, our breathing and movements become 'natural'. If one day i were to get into a street fight, i am not constrained to move in a certain way, my body goes completely relaxed, everything goes (hitting / breaking the arm, palm / reverse palm strikes, elbow / knee strikes etc). I tried some light fighting with a friend who practises decent muay thai and completely dominated him, mostly because i am very heavy (rooted) from all the relaxation training and because my arms are relaxed my movements are very fast, strong and snappy. My friend also has no idea how i move as i don't have any fixed techniques.

It remains to be seen how i would fare in a ring or a real street fight, but i don't train for that. I have never been involved in a real fight my whole life and i don't foresee myself being involved in one the rest of my life. If i ever do, it will probably be a self defence or life and death situation, and at that time, everything goes.

Might be a bit off topic, but I'm curious whether practitioners of Huang style consider themselves to be of a distinct style or an offshoot of CMC or Yang style? What sets Huang style apart from CMC or Yang? Although I'm a student of mainstream Chen but I've always been interested in Huang Sheng Shyan's style for personal reasons.

 

[Zeny]

Good question. From my point of view:

1) huang style is cmc style but with a distinct flavour. Basically we do the same 37 form with fair lady's hand, but some postures have been modified slightly (for eg, when we commence, the manner of parting the feet is different and the press posture is also different, looks like hugging the body)

2) we also practise the yang 108 form, but with similar modifications. I believe this form was added merely to complete the curriculum, as we mostly do the 37 form

3) huang added the '5 body relaxation methods' and the 'hun yan gong' (which is a stationary up down movement), both of which are not found in the cmc style. In my limited experience, i find that this 'hun yang gong' is the only way that allows me to practise 'extreme' relaxation, i have not found any other method (if you have a good one, please let me know)

4) one of huang's senior students added a further '6 body loosening methods', which is not found in the cmc style, or the mainstream huang style, which i also practise

5) most push hands are done free style (though fixed step push hands are also taught and practised by beginners)

6) if i look at cmc style forms on youtube, i recognize the movements, but it looks weird

7) if i look at yang style push hands, it looks very weird (especially the circling arms)

8) we don't practise chen style 'peng jin' or anything like that. What we strive for is 100 percent relaxation (no tension whatsoever). By my estimation it takes 15 years of consistent and correct practice to achieve this state.

Anything else you want to know?

 

[Zeny]

Good example of a 37 form performed by a huang stylist. It looks recognisably huang.

Contrast the above with this 37 form performed cmc style.

These forms don't look very 'martial' and make one wonder 'how do we learn to fight with that form?' That's the best thing that i love about the 37 form. The form looks so tame and harmless but every single movement in the form has a martial purpose. If you want i can 'decrypt' it for you.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If by teaching someone how to sit on or cuddle with another person for several minutes sure.

What's the point of putting on the pajamas if I don't get to cuddle with someone?

 

[mograph]

What's the point of putting on the pajamas if I don't get to cuddle with someone?

Silk pajamas -- too slippery!

 

[zzj]

Good example of a 37 form performed by a huang stylist. It looks recognisably huang.

Contrast the above with this 37 form performed cmc style.

These forms don't look very 'martial' and make one wonder 'how do we learn to fight with that form?' That's the best thing that i love about the 37 form. The form looks so tame and harmless but every single movement in the form has a martial purpose. If you want i can 'decrypt' it for you.

The martial purpose of the moves are quite apparent, and they are very similar, at least externally, to what we train in Chen style, with more of a small frame flavor. With regards to your comment about peng jin equating tension (to whatever extent), I would have to disagree, I'm not sure if any style of tai chi would advocate training tension.

 

[zzj]

Good question. From my point of view:

1) huang style is cmc style but with a distinct flavour. Basically we do the same 37 form with fair lady's hand, but some postures have been modified slightly (for eg, when we commence, the manner of parting the feet is different and the press posture is also different, looks like hugging the body)

2) we also practise the yang 108 form, but with similar modifications. I believe this form was added merely to complete the curriculum, as we mostly do the 37 form

3) huang added the '5 body relaxation methods' and the 'hun yan gong' (which is a stationary up down movement), both of which are not found in the cmc style. In my limited experience, i find that this 'hun yang gong' is the only way that allows me to practise 'extreme' relaxation, i have not found any other method (if you have a good one, please let me know)

4) one of huang's senior students added a further '6 body loosening methods', which is not found in the cmc style, or the mainstream huang style, which i also practise

5) most push hands are done free style (though fixed step push hands are also taught and practised by beginners)

6) if i look at cmc style forms on youtube, i recognize the movements, but it looks weird

7) if i look at yang style push hands, it looks very weird (especially the circling arms)

8) we don't practise chen style 'peng jin' or anything like that. What we strive for is 100 percent relaxation (no tension whatsoever). By my estimation it takes 15 years of consistent and correct practice to achieve this state.

Anything else you want to know?

I do have 1 question, is the Yang 108 form integral to Huang style? or is it, as you seem to suggest, more for the purpose of completing the curriculum. I'm asking this because I may want to learn the 37 form and relaxation exercises as a counterpoint to my Chen experience.

Apparently the local Huang Style association is very close to where I live, so tempting.

 

[Zeny]

No, it is not. The core of the huang style is the 37 form. Where do you live and what does your local huang association teach?

 

[zzj]

No, it is not. The core of the huang style is the 37 form. Where do you live and what does your local huang association teach?

I'm from Singapore, i believe that the local association was one of the first to be established by Huang Sheng Shyan outside Taiwan where he studied under CMC, and it is at most a 5 minute drive from my home. From their website it seems they teach the full curriculum, but the basic course covers the only relaxation methods and the 37 form.

 

[Zeny]

Oh so near, i'm from kuching

 

[zzj]

Oh so near, i'm from kuching

In the context of this forum we are practically neighbours

 

[Xue Sheng]

In the context of the forum I have family that would also be your neighbors

 

[Zeny]

Zzj, i read up some more on 'peng jin'. I realised that i may have misunderstood it.

If i'm not mistaken 'peng jin' refers to the springy quality (like a rubber ball) that is achieved by the body after practising taichi for some time.

In my experience with the huang style, we are training for the same thing but we don't call it 'peng jin'. We call it 'tang xin' (springy or elastic) instead.

 

[zzj]

Zzj, i read up some more on 'peng jin'. I realised that i may have misunderstood it.

If i'm not mistaken 'peng jin' refers to the springy quality (like a rubber ball) that is achieved by the body after practising taichi for some time.

In my experience with the huang style, we are training for the same thing but we don't call it 'peng jin'. We call it 'tang xin' (springy or elastic) instead.

Yep, I think that's correct. At the core we are all striving for the same thing, just that our approach differs; I do like the emphasis on training relaxation through drills and exercises in your style, whether or not I do end up learning the form, I think I will incorporate the relaxation methods into my practice. It can't be bad.

 

[Pittsburgh Arnis]

By better martial artist I mean better fighter, I want to be a better fighter. I am mostly a kenpo practitioner and I also do a lot of weight lifting, I have heard many things about tai chi and I am wondering if I should take the tai chi classes hosted at the gym I often go to.

Maybe you would be interested in these books:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Internal-Martial-Arts/dp/1556432534

http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Techniques-Taiji-Xingyi-Bagua/dp/1583941452

 

[BillK]

Not having read through this whole thread, but, you might check out ymaa.com. Dr. Yang has several videos that teach the Yang style taijiquan, including the martial applications. He also teaches Taiji Shuai Jiao, Taiji ChinNa, Qigong, Taiji sword, and others.