How to understand a kata

[K-man]

That's one of the beginner forms created by Toguchi Sensei from the Shoreikan lineage. Not in Jundokan. Kinda repetitive...Not sure why Toguchi felt it were necessary considering its similarity to Gekisai Dai Ichi.

OK. Same as Goju Kai's basic Taikyoku kata.
:asian:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No matter how good that you can perform your form/Kata, you are just a good copy machine, no more and no less. If you don't add something new into your system, the day when you die, you have no contribution to your system.

Why don't you start to "create" your own form/Kata? Instead of trying to understand the ancient form/Kata, why don't you let people to study your form/Kata instead?

If you create a

- good form/Kata, people will still practice it 1000 years from today.
- bad form/Kata, nobody will even notice your creation through the MA history.

Instead of reading Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, start to write your own books before you die.

 

[K-man]

No matter how good that you can perform your form/Kata, you are just a good copy machine, no more and no less. If you don't add something new into your system, the day when you die, you have no contribution to your system.

Why don't you start to "create" your own form/Kata? Instead of trying to understand the ancient form/Kata, why don't you let people to study your form/Kata instead?

If you create a

- good form/Kata, people will still practice it 1000 years from today.
- bad form/Kata, nobody will even notice your creation through the MA history.

Instead of reading Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, start to write your own books before you die.

I used to think I could and in fact a lot of friends have to do just that for their gradings. Do you know how demoralising it is to see someone going for 5th dan performing a kata that is just a sequence of moves?

If I was starting over again I could be 5th dan TKD by age 10, 1st dan BJJ by 20, 5th dan Goju by 40, 2nd dan Aikido by 60 and with that amount of understanding I might just be able to cobble together a reasonable kata. Unfortunately starting at 66, even with a bit of experience I am about 60 years too late.

 

[donald1]

Gekisai Dai Ichi and ni

That's one of the beginner forms created by Toguchi Sensei from the Shoreikan lineage. Not in Jundokan. Kinda repetitive...Not sure why Toguchi felt it were necessary considering its similarity to Gekisai Dai Ichi.

And gekisai Dai ni, if I have my history correct miyagi made both gekisai Dai Ichi and ni, and Toguchi made gekisai Dai San, all similar to tondo tu kata dai itchi and ni
(IMO, with slight differences as gets more advanced but more or less similar pattern atleast)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I used to think I could and in fact a lot of friends have to do just that for their gradings. Do you know how demoralising it is to see someone going for 5th dan performing a kata that is just a sequence of moves?

If I was starting over again I could be 5th dan TKD by age 10, 1st dan BJJ by 20, 5th dan Goju by 40, 2nd dan Aikido by 60 and with that amount of understanding I might just be able to cobble together a reasonable kata. Unfortunately starting at 66, even with a bit of experience I am about 60 years too late.

The day that I have realized that nobody ever tried to use

- kick, punch to set up clinch,
- clinch to set up lock and throw,
- lock and throw to set up ground game,

the day that I lose my respect to those ancient form/Kata creators.

In the 21th century, the integration of kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game is much more important than the ancient "striking art only" way of thinking.

 

[sopraisso]

The day that I have realized that nobody ever tried to use

- kick, punch to set up clinch,
- clinch to set up lock and throw,
- lock and throw to set up ground game,

the day that I lose my respect to those ancient form/Kata creators.

In the 21th century, the integration of kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game is much more important than the ancient "striking art only" way of thinking.

I'm wondering what you mean in this post. I'm guessing you are being sarcastic, right?

If you think karate kata don't teach exactly how to setup everything you actually need for real fighting and if you view classic karate as a "striking only" art you are really completely clueless about what karate is about (not that this is a rare condition even among long time practitioners).

 

[clautz]

I really appreciated he videos on seisan kata. I believe the Shorinryu - Shotokan - Isshinryu seisan katas are in the same family; Uechi - Wado Ryu, Gojo a different family - The Korean systems (unsure). If you are going to pull back the layers of the onion then start with the earliest form of Seisan which are Shorinryu which bred Shotokan and Isshinryu. Likely Goju's form is earliest in that family of hard styles. By looking back it is like reading a book in the original Greek and you can pick up new meaning and twists you might not catch if you read the book in English, i.e. eros and agape::love. Remember "Seisan" means "Thirteen" only, i.e. Thrirteen steps; Thirteen opponents, Thirteen breaths and having so many Kata called "Thirteen" may just be coincidental just like many of you may have twelve step kihon katas; or twelve step warm-ups, etc. I doubt all of these versions of Seisan came from one mother source. Be careful -- there are no secrets in karate only "Hagakure" -- hidden in the leaves. Sweat, more sweat, thought, trial and error brushes the leaves away.