How to handle the parents

[miguksaram]

Took me nine years to get my belt and I'll likely be a 1st Dan forever, childrens BB devalue the work I put in and others like me.

How? Are you that hung up on other's people progress or lack there of that you feel you are devalued by their actions? I mean seriously. If you got a BB after nine years and then some child from the same school got a BB do you really feel that your BB is now devalued?

We just had a BB test at our school. It was the first official Jr. BB test that our instructor had. One of the kids there was 9 year old. I can garauntee that what he went through in the 4 hour test (from bow in unitl completion) was more than most of these "adult" black belts went through in their 30 minute test.

I guess I just don't understand why people base the value of their training on someone else's accomplishments.

 

[Tez3]

I haven't as I said read the other thread, I've only been back a little over a day after being away for over 12 days and I don't have a laptop. I was commenting purely on this thread and nothing else but if thats me censured so be it. I wasn't continuing any other thread, this is only one of about three I've read. Ranking children, disruptive parents, mcDojos are to me a recurrent theme in many posts as they are issues that worry many of us. To me it's to do with parent's expectations which influences how those parents behave in a class, if they thinking they are paying for their children to be blackbelts they will assume they have a greater control over the instructors than they have, hence perhaps Terry's problem with demanding and unco-operative parents.
However as it seems I'm guilty of continuing a thread I haven't either read or commented on I think I've outstayed my welcome here at MT I can take the hint when I'm not welcome here anymore.

 

[Tez3]

How? Are you that hung up on other's people progress or lack there of that you feel you are devalued by their actions? I mean seriously. If you got a BB after nine years and then some child from the same school got a BB do you really feel that your BB is now devalued?

We just had a BB test at our school. It was the first official Jr. BB test that our instructor had. One of the kids there was 9 year old. I can garauntee that what he went through in the 4 hour test (from bow in unitl completion) was more than most of these "adult" black belts went through in their 30 minute test.

I guess I just don't understand why people base the value of their training on someone else's accomplishments.

Oh great, we'll just discuss my supposed hang ups now and make me really sure I need to leave MT.

No child gets his blackbelt from the same 'school' as I did. We don't have a school, we are just a martial arts club which doesn't do child's blackbelts. My blackbelt test went on for just over 12 hours.

 

[shesulsa]

Good grief!

The customer mentality has been long lost and I personally think it is little more than an extension of a courteous relationship. These folks could put their kids in any school - they picked yours. Be courteous to them. It is *their* money you are taking.

Then, in return, give them what they are paying for - an environment where respect and consideration are the golden rules for conduct expected from anyone and everyone walking through the door, give quality instruction and don't sell rank like most TKD schools do.

(sorry - had to say it)

Have a plan for coping with parental issues - I like to have a meet & greet class where this is discussed like elder999 does. Know who you have to kick out and why and cover your ***.

That is all.

 

[Tez3]

We are all members of a club (we aren't allowed to a 'school' or commercial business), the rules of the club are explained to everyone this includes as we are a military establishment the rules on actions to be taken in case of fire,accident or attack on the site ( not unknown when the IRA was more active and would lob mortars over the fenceline, they are still active but not so much now). We only pay enough to cover the insurance, kit and repair of current kit, cleaning materials etc. Parents aren't paying for tuition, just upkeep...housekeeping if you like.

 

[miguksaram]

Oh great, we'll just discuss my supposed hang ups now and make me really sure I need to leave MT.

No child gets his blackbelt from the same 'school' as I did. We don't have a school, we are just a martial arts club which doesn't do child's blackbelts. My blackbelt test went on for just over 12 hours.

Great...that was a great answer to something other than the question I asked. However, reading from the mods to keep this on track (after I made my previous post), perhaps you could place your answer in the other thread about children black belts.

 

[miguksaram]

Good grief!

The customer mentality has been long lost and I personally think it is little more than an extension of a courteous relationship. These folks could put their kids in any school - they picked yours. Be courteous to them. It is *their* money you are taking.

Customer is defined as a person or business that purchases a commodity or service. As instructors we are providing a service. So unless you not being paid by the student (or parent in this case), they are customers. Yes, you are a bit more personal with these customers but they are customers none the less. Just because you EARN their money through the service you provide, it does not give them the right to just do as they please in your school.

We currently have a situation in our school where a parent will drop their kid off and then go to the bar across the way and then come back intoxicated. He then proceeds to sideline coach his kid. We are now in the midst of taking care of the situation but it may end up where either the wife drops the kid or the kid doesn't come back if he is going to be the only one bringing him.

 

[shesulsa]

Just because you EARN their money through the service you provide, it does not give them the right to just do as they please in your school.

Agreed!

We currently have a situation in our school where a parent will drop their kid off and then go to the bar across the way and then come back intoxicated. He then proceeds to sideline coach his kid. We are now in the midst of taking care of the situation but it may end up where either the wife drops the kid or the kid doesn't come back if he is going to be the only one bringing him.

That's a whole other issue, really, but definitely worth discussing.

 

[granfire]

We currently have a situation in our school where a parent will drop their kid off and then go to the bar across the way and then come back intoxicated. He then proceeds to sideline coach his kid. We are now in the midst of taking care of the situation but it may end up where either the wife drops the kid or the kid doesn't come back if he is going to be the only one bringing him.

Ouch, not to mention the trouble you might get in knowign this person is drunk and driving off in his car, with the child.

One moment were I have to say I like the ITA policy of no alcohol on the grounds, which pretty much includes the parking lot.

 

[miguksaram]

Ouch, not to mention the trouble you might get in knowign this person is drunk and driving off in his car, with the child.

One moment were I have to say I like the ITA policy of no alcohol on the grounds, which pretty much includes the parking lot.

Right. As it stands we are sending an email to the father asking him to refrain from drinking if he is going to enter our school. If we feel he is of danger to himself or his child we will contact the authorities.

 

[Tez3]

Great...that was a great answer to something other than the question I asked. However, reading from the mods to keep this on track (after I made my previous post), perhaps you could place your answer in the other thread about children black belts.

What on earth have I done to upset you so much you have to attack me?

I happen to think that giving away/'selling' belts undermines the value for those who earn them. My opinion merely, there's no call to be calling me names about it, I might be wrong or your opinion is different but I'm not calling you insecure or anything.
As I keep saying I haven't read the other thread...20+ pages long yet, so have no idea why you are all so upset. I mentioned children and everyones up in arms? and I'm not going to post in a thread where I haven't read anything.

 

[miguksaram]

What on earth have I done to upset you so much you have to attack me?

I happen to think that giving away/'selling' belts undermines the value for those who earn them. My opinion merely, there's no call to be calling me names about it, I might be wrong or your opinion is different but I'm not calling you insecure or anything.
As I keep saying I haven't read the other thread...20+ pages long yet, so have no idea why you are all so upset. I mentioned children and everyones up in arms? and I'm not going to post in a thread where I haven't read anything.

Ok...first off, I am anything but upset. So with that said, I asked a question and you gave an answer that, in my opinoin, didn't answer the question, so I am asking for you to answer again. This is not an attack. At no time did I say that answer was stupid or that you were insecure. I said it answered something else, not the question I originally asked.

Secondly...please point out where I called you a name or called you insecured. What I asked is if you were really that hung up about other people's accomplishments or lack thereof that you need to base the value of your own accomplishment accordingly.

Yes some people are up in arms about kids. So if you are going to bring the topic up or speak an opinoin, the you best be ready to defend it with some sort of logic. And lastly, the thread that I mentioned deals specifically on the topic we are discussing now.

 

[Tez3]

Ok...first off, I am anything but upset. So with that said, I asked a question and you gave an answer that, in my opinoin, didn't answer the question, so I am asking for you to answer again. This is not an attack. At no time did I say that answer was stupid or that you were insecure. I said it answered something else, not the question I originally asked.

Secondly...please point out where I called you a name or called you insecured. What I asked is if you were really that hung up about other people's accomplishments or lack thereof that you need to base the value of your own accomplishment accordingly.

Yes some people are up in arms about kids. So if you are going to bring the topic up or speak an opinoin, the you best be ready to defend it with some sort of logic. And lastly, the thread that I mentioned deals specifically on the topic we are discussing now.

Why do I have to offer logic for something I feel? since when did feelings and opinions have to be logical, I gave my opinion and said what I felt, you read it the wrong way, I didn't write what I felt the wrong way! You don't have to like, appreciate or in any way endorse my feelings about this subject. if you don't like my answers I can't help that either. I write honestly, without pretence and as I see things, obviously my views and others aren't going to be the same. I really can't see why all this has to be so 'in your face'.

You actually started a whole new thread based on your answer to me which suggested I must be insecure because I base my performance on others.... which actually I don't and in fact on that thread others have argued more eloquently than I about the subject and those views echo mine. I'm refraining from posting on that thread because I feel quite strongly you are getting at me with it. I guess that will confirm now your thoughts of my 'insecurities'.

 

[TKD_Father]

Why do I have to offer logic for something I feel?

I feel that all my post will now begin with the phrase "I feel". :boing1:

 

[Tez3]

I feel that all my post will now begin with the phrase "I feel". :boing1:

My, my, we can't all be automatons you know, feelings are what makes me a good mother, a good wife and a good instructor ( and that's only the things I can print here!) oh makes me quite good at my job too and as a bonus a feeling for detecting BS comes with it.

 

[Gorilla]

I haven't as I said read the other thread, I've only been back a little over a day after being away for over 12 days and I don't have a laptop. I was commenting purely on this thread and nothing else but if thats me censured so be it. I wasn't continuing any other thread, this is only one of about three I've read. Ranking children, disruptive parents, mcDojos are to me a recurrent theme in many posts as they are issues that worry many of us. To me it's to do with parent's expectations which influences how those parents behave in a class, if they thinking they are paying for their children to be blackbelts they will assume they have a greater control over the instructors than they have, hence perhaps Terry's problem with demanding and unco-operative parents.
However as it seems I'm guilty of continuing a thread I haven't either read or commented on I think I've outstayed my welcome here at MT I can take the hint when I'm not welcome here anymore.

I like your posts!!! I mostly don't agree with them...but folks like you keep MT interesting...So don't take your ball and go home(american saying)...you would be acting like a 12 year old and then you would not be worthy of your black belt...I hope you take this in the matter in which it was intended(just a little humor to cut the tension)

 

[Tez3]

I like your posts!!! I mostly don't agree with them...but folks like you keep MT interesting...So don't take your ball and go home(american saying)...you would be acting like a 12 year old and then you would not be worthy of your black belt...I hope you take this in the matter in which it was intended(just a little humor to cut the tension)

Thank you! I'm what they call an emotional poster lol, I just say what I think and mean, I don't clutter it up with logic, for crying out loud I'm a woman!! I just talk from my own experience (that means I'm always right rofl) but I try hard not to talk from others.
I'd love to act like a 12 year old tbh, I've got to the age where I really want the numbers to be going the other way. I've just had a lovely break in very sunny Cornwall, come back, have a look at the new threads, post up as usual on the one or two I fancied reading ( no, I don't stick to one art, being MMA mostly, I reckon the mixed bit means I can poke my nose in anywhere) and some people seem to have had a right sad on especially the sprogs (squaddie talk lol)!

Probably the main reason I don't think kids should have their full blackbelts as kids is because I believe that with the belt comes responsibilities and work such as teaching, I'm sure there's many kids who can shoulder them well plus teach competently but should they? Can't we just let kids enjoy being kids?
The reason I see this tied into problems with parents is that often its the parents who want the grades more, rightly they want good things for their children and will push for those things, they pay the instructors and they believe this gives them a certain ownership over the proceedings. this makes parents difficult to deal with, you can understand where they are coming from as a parent but you also want to say hey just let the kids enjoy what they are doing, that's a reward in it's self. Of course there's the obnoxious ones but you can do what I do, use them as ukes lol!

 

[Gorilla]

I am not one of the parents you describe

 

[Tez3]

I am not one of the parents you describe

I guessed that!
It's not just in martial arts it's generally, 10 year old girls are going to have facials done, their nails manicured and wearing makeup outside as if they were adults etc. Clothes are almost provocative, we had a thing here which lucklily a group of parents campaigned to stop, of shops selling sexy underwear for young children. the children are being pushed constantly to be minature adults and it worries me, I don't want them to be stressed about gradings in martial arts, for them it should be fun and preparation. I don't like to see children teaching classes, helping others along no problem but why make them into little adults?
I do think blackbelts should be able to fight and to take classes and that parents should if not literally bow to them at least understand that if they want their children to be respectful etc they need to be in the first place. Children will, obviously, copy their parents. The parent who rants or disrespects the instructor in front of the class is going to have their children and probably others do it too, hence I think Terry was right to protest even at what seems a small thing going on while he's teaching.

 

[Gorilla]

Terry was 100% right. He has his own kids and I am sure that he takes the decision to remove a student from his school because of the actions of a parent very seriously.