Discussion in 'Women of the Martial Arts (Women Martial Artists)' started by FieldDiscipline, Sep 27, 2007.
Whoa! Check out the 'trainasium'!
I've posted some other info on milling here.
Yeah I am aware they have recently seperated women's basic from the mens. I believe women were suffering a huge (unjustifiable) amount of hip and lower limb injuries from the steep progression and the large weight carried. I'd also heard whispers about the P Coy woman. Log run's have dropped plenty men over the years too I'm afraid to say. Regarding women's PT the combat engineer course is notorious (or was, I fear its changed now) for women being unable to keep up due to the sheer weights involved both when tabbing and on tasks. I say I fear its changed as I believe it is an operational neccessity that everyone, male or female keep up. This isnt sexist, men can fail too. Around the time I was at the commando training centre we had a woman orificer pass through the all arms course. We were all very impressed but since that date it has emerged she was given several goes and it was pretty much a paper pass (if such a thing exists at Lympstone). From what I hear no such exemptions were granted by P Coy and much respect to woman in question.
Incidently Tez, your mate seems to be a bit of a legend on the other forum on which I post...
Ha! My instructor always says "men and women are EQUAL at this dojang, so I want to see real pushups!" We do have "goals" to be reached at each belt level for physical fitness and the "womens" number of pushups is less than the "mens" (by about 5). However, we have higher goals for women than men in the situp column as men seem to have more trouble with natural core strength than women do. (And this really keeps everything looking "equal").
Thats a new one.
I hate this 'equal' rubbish when it comes to physical stuff, I think it's dangerous to be honest. We aren't all 'equal' in that sense and it doesn't demean anyone to say that. What it means is that we should all be working to our own levels, doing exercises that are for us so that we get fitter safely. When people say equal they mean you are all the same and clearly we are not. The 14 year old is still growing so we protect them by not overdoing things, the 102kg pro fighter has different training needs from the 30year old mum who comes to get fit, how on earth can we do them all justice and give them the best workout/warm up if we treat them all equally and shout right 100 press ups? What benchmark do we chose?
I agree entirely 100% with your previous post Tez.
I totally agree. We are not all the same irrespective of gender.
I agree; men and women, men and other men, women and other women, and even me today and me next Friday aren't all the same.
For work-related testing or evaluation, the methods and measures should be verifiably and validly related to the work tasks. I'm a cop; that means I need to be able to run short to moderate distances, climb fences, etc. Define the standards, then everyone meets them. If it's carry a 60 lb ruck for 30 miles... everyone carries one. If it's run 3 miles in 20 minutes... everyone does it. Encourage higher performance however you want -- but EVERYONE should meet the same minimums, which should be based on real assessment of job needs.
I don't have any empirical evidence to back it up, but have just witnessed it over many years. Women who walk through the door seem to do better at situps, leg lifts, etc (more core strength) then men. Maybe women have spent more time doing those types of activities for health reasons before coming into martial arts, while men have spent more time lifting weights or doing pushups. I can tell you lots of non-ma women I know who do crunches every day, but very few who do pushups. So we figure take everyone at where they are when they walk in the door, and then try to set up some standard levels for them to reach at each progession. And, our experience has told us to set the bar a little higher for core strength for women than men.
Number of reps is completely different than the actual exercise. Take any exercise and obviously gender, age, and ability all play a factor. But, as instructors encouraging others towards better health (which I believe is a big reason for people joining martial arts today) we have to have set goals to encourage people towards. If I say "you are a girl so don't worry about ever doing real pushups, just do them on your knees" then right there I am limiting every female student I have. If instead I say "this is what I want you to be able to do (a full pushup) and we are going to work with you until you are able to do it, and if you have to do from the knees for now, or standing against a wall, etc, then that is fine, but eventually you WILL be able to do a real pushup." Then I am fulfilling my duty as an instructor. I had a female student (with tears in her eyes)
tell me just the other day that she thought she could NEVER do a real pushup and now she can do 15 in a row!!! Her excitement was awesome!! If I hadn't encouraged her to work towards and try full pushups she would still have that "I can't" mind set. Now she understands she CAN do something she never thought was possible, and hopefully that mind set will carry over in to other aspects of her life that she previously thought she couldn't do. These types of moments are what makes teaching all worth it.
The above statement kind of takes the argument to an extreme to make a point. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you "lower" standards, but rather take into consideration the individual rather than just their age or sex.
You are obviously a good and patient instructor, but not every instructor is like that.
As a woman I am not sure how I feel about this subject. It is true we are built differently than men, should less be expected of us then when it comes to pushups? No. I think the standard should be the same, but maybe the method should be different.
I don't think anyone benefits from doing 100 pushups. I would rather do 10 pushups a day and not risk injuring myself to "prove" myself.
Good topic, btw.
No one is going to injure themselves gradually working up to 100 pushups. What will happen though if you limit yourself to 10 is that eventually your body will be well adapted to those ten, and without more challenge, your body will not get stronger and more fit with time.
Let me clarify. I don't think anyone benefits from doing 100 pushups EVERYDAY. I apologize for not stating that.
Obviously your body will adapt to doing 10 pushups a day, but I was just stating an example of extremes. Not to be taken at face value.
But just to point out, doing 10 pushups a day, everyday you may not get any stronger but you will MAINTAIN a constant level a strength. Not to mention develop very toned arms.
I know it has been awhile since I last posted but I just had to give my 2 cents on this one.
I am definately no physical education/fitness guru, but I really don't understand the big deal with women doing push-ups on their toes. This is the way I learned them since elementary school. Now mind you, can I do as many reps as some of the guys that I have trained with...Of coarse not because I believe (whether this is true or not I don't know) woman are built differently in regards to their upper body which in turn is related to their upper strength. But in no means does that mean that they can't benefit physically from doing push ups the same way as men.
I also don't really understand the problem with kids doing push ups this way either. My own chidlren learned from their elementary schools to do them this way as well. Even at our school our students ( of all ages) do push -ups on their toes. I even have several (some under the age of 10) that can do them better than the adults. I will say that we don't expect them all to do them from day 1 this way. We teach them push ups on their knees for those who have trouble lifting their body weight with toe push ups.
Ok, I'm back ( been in holiday for 10 days, nice to be back at MT but not at work lol!)
I talked to a military PTI about this, the reason the military have women do press up on their knees is NOT because women are weaker but because with every exercise they get people to do they have to get the maximum benefit from it, the scientist types have said that press ups on knees give the most benefit for women. They adjust all exercise for people so they can get maximum effect from it, it's not singling out women. it seems very tall people have difficulties with some exercises as do larger/smaller people. It's a case of doing the best for everyone not singling out anyone.
The PTI said too that many people don't do press ups properly and just 'bob' their elbows a little up and down which he reckons is the case when people say they can do a great many of them! Press ups are also over rated he thinks, a hangover from the 'old days' when scientific training wasn't around. They are used in the military not so much for physical training as mental training now. It still also has 'punishment' connotations! I have seen MA instructors use them as such too.
Hi)) If you want to strengthen the hands and do push-ups, I advise you to watch a short video, after that you'll know how to do the exercises!
Just FYI, you might want to check the date of this thread. The last post was in 2007.....
Nor will you find any science behind it. A "correct" pushup requires a tight core and holding the spine in its correct position as well. This is assuming that there is not a pre-existing medical issue that the push up is being modified for to accomodate.
"Girl Push ups" are just a strength progression for ALL people to build up to for regular pushups. All of your core/spinal alignment should be the same as a regular pushup, you are just changing the leverage point by switching it to the knees. This change in the "lever" lowers the overall bodyweight that you are pushing up.
Most gym classes just had females do them that way because men biologically have more upper body strength in an untrained state and it was easier for them to do. That being said, I know MANY females that train and can whup most guys in a pushup contest.
Kind of thought the same thing. I think the world record is 118 in a minute.
Those are either taking longer than thought and rounding the time or really loose push ups.
That is around 1.5 pushups a second.
Agreed. I haven't really tried enough to be definitive on this, but my quick experimentation (years ago) indicated that pushing up fast enough to do that with a full range would stop you from descending fast enough unless you turn the descent into a fall, which isn't really a full push-up. Everyone I've seen do really fast push-ups also worked a very short range of motion.
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