How Should Women do Push-ups

Discussion in 'Women of the Martial Arts (Women Martial Artists)' started by FieldDiscipline, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    As far as I know, there is no valid physicological reason for women to do push ups on their knees, other than lacking the upper-body strength to perform regular push-ups-and I've actually ahd a few male students who had to start on their knees and build up to their toes, just as some women did.
     
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  2. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    I, also, would like to know the reasoning behind: limiting the number of pushups and for women not doing them on their toes. As a PT I have never heard of any reason why either should be limited or discarded.

    If anything, all individuals should regularly checked for good posture and technique. If someone (man, woman, child) cannot perform them all on their toes they should finish out on their knees and build progressively.


    Please, give me some solid evidence as to why, not just speculation.
     
  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well let's turn this round and ask why should people be doing 100s of press up a week?

    I've just woken up after being on nights, been out all night on the moors looking for a lost soldier. Recruit got himself lost on night exercise, dark and freezing on Yorkshire moors, not nice. Sensible lad though put up his basha and got into his sleeping bag and waited to be found. The British army training teaches sensible workable stuff so I tend to think if they suggest women do press ups on their knees it's a good suggestion to follow however I will pin down one of the PTI's and get a very detailed explaination for you as well as the Army physiotherapists point of view. I'm away next week and will be training with some Royal Marines and ask their opinion too. I can't help thinking that a proper well rounded warm up would be far better for you than doing 100 pressups in class. I'm not saying that doing 100 pressups is bad per se but that doing it twice a week as a warm up is perhaps not good for anyone.
     
  4. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    I do at least 100 push ups every morning but Sunday. So does my wife-on her toes, I might add.No biggie.
     
  5. FieldDiscipline

    FieldDiscipline 2nd Black Belt

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    Tez, I can give you the RM answer now.

    We dont have women, we are the Royal Marines.

    Also, press-ups? They come in groups of less than 50?
     
  6. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    I'm sure that the reason, as I've said, is that a lot of women lack the upper-body strength to do push-ups on their toes-at first. The knee push ups reduce the amount of body weight that is being moved, and thus are easier. It's that simple-push-ups on toes will not do anything to a woman's pelvis, back, abdominals, shoulders or chest that they won't to to man's-at least in terms of bones and musculature.The knee-push ups are a good beginning step to transition to eventually doing them on their toes-or not. It's still a good exercise, on the knees or the toes, and that's the real point, isn't it?

    Anyway, from Military.com



    From Wikipedia

    ANd, while not a physiologist, I reckon it's possible that it might be impossible for some women with large breasts to do push-ups on their toes, but what do I know?
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    The "British" RAF, good grief! theres only one RAF!! Per Ardua Ad Astra!
     
  8. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Well, sure, but the distinction between the Royal Canadian Air Force, Royal Australian Air Force, Royal New Zealand Air Force, Royal Moroccan Air Force, Royal Norwegian Air Force and Royal Saudi Air Force might escape some.....
     
  9. FieldDiscipline

    FieldDiscipline 2nd Black Belt

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    Ouch.

    Regarding the above references, I dont accept this is the reasoning the British forces have gone with, I cant see it washing I'm afraid. If you are just too weak then you shouldnt be there. The British Army isnt going to make the exercises easier for you, in the same way the enemy arent gonna fight softer because you're a girl and thus may have less upper body strength.
     
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  10. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    It also occurs to me, that if it's impossible for some women to do push-ups from their toes, then it's discrimination to require it, in some ways, and that the default is to only require women to do them from their knees.....again, though, what do I know?
     
  11. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    I disagree... I've never met anyone that, with some work, couldn't manage to do traditional or regular pushups. It may not be easy, but it can be done.

    When you start comparing functional physical abilities, the standards should be tied to actual performance -- and should be the same, no matter the age, sex, or whatever of the person. If I, a cop in my mid-thirties with a few injuries and some extra pounds, a 21-year old rookie on his first night, the chief (in his 50s, I believe, but very fit), and a female officer in her mid 20s all go off to chase a bad guy, he's not going to look around and run slower 'cause the person chasing him is older, or female, any more than he's going to run faster if he sees a younger or fitter person chasing him.
     
  12. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    Women shpould do push ups because they fought to have equal rights[​IMG] and if they give in and do nothing but knee's pushups then all that work just went down the drain and women of old will be turning in there graves.[​IMG].
    Remember lady's I'm sticking up for your rights here.
     
  13. FieldDiscipline

    FieldDiscipline 2nd Black Belt

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    I agree entirely with the above posts, which is why there must be a genuine reason for this.
     
  14. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Yeah, that may all be, and I agree with you. However, if you're in your mid-thirties, you're too young to remember when women sued several municipal fire departments and police departments-and I'm remembering when it happened in New York-and standards for physical fitness in general were lowered for everyone.

    By government standards, if someone is incapable of meeting an arbitrary set of physical standards of fitness by virtue of their inherent capabilities-to whit, not because they're fat, or out of shape, but because they're women-then those standards are discriminatory, and not legal. You can have a different (and lower) set of standards for women that they can meet, or a lower set of standards for everyone, but organizations are not permitted to impose standards that could prove to be a de facto rejection of women. This is the reason why women do flexed arm hang pull-ups instead of dead arm hangs, have lower time requirements for runs, and lower requirements for calisthenics in a given time period for all U.S. Military, law enforcement and fire department physical fitness tests.

    If chesty women can't do push-ups from their toes (and I'm not saying that's the case, just that it seems possible) then governmental agencies, at least in the U.S., can't require that women do them at all. I'll say it again, the only feasible reason for women to do push-ups from their knees is because they can't do them from their toes-yet.
     
  15. Phoenix44

    Phoenix44 Master of Arts

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    I never met any able-bodied person of either gender who couldn't do regular push-ups with practice--and that includes "chesty women." I think the knee push-ups are useful for beginners who lack the upper body strength. And I never heard of any reason why women should not do regular push-ups.
     
  16. FieldDiscipline

    FieldDiscipline 2nd Black Belt

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    If a set level of strength or fitness is a requirment of the job though, and I would argue that is should be for firefighters (among many others) then it is not discriminatory. In the military sense, if women are allowed into combat units this will result in deaths. If you want to do the job, pass the tests. No-one would let me be a physics lecturer, because I dont know physics to that level, is this discrimination?

    Its PC gone mad.
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    There is only one Royal Air Force, all others came after and come with the name of their country in it.

    If something if for the benefit of someone it is not discrimination. In fights we make men wear groin guards should we not make them wear them because women don't?
    No ones answered the question about doing 200 pressups per training session yet, if you train twice a week you will be doing over 400 press ups, is that recommended?
     
  18. bookworm_cn317

    bookworm_cn317 2nd Black Belt

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    My instructor expects me to do 'regular' push-ups-- meaning the ones on your toes. Cuz it, you know, develops upper body strength.
     
  19. FieldDiscipline

    FieldDiscipline 2nd Black Belt

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    I think its more an endurance based exercise actually.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Our pro fighters rarely do pressups, they do weight training for upper body strength, we have weights in our club so as a rule we use them. We will only do a few as part of the warm up routine. I do them on the bench so that I can have the correct posture without straining myself.

    The thorny subject of women's fitness in the Forces has been argued over and over, the sad fact is that no-one male or female joining the forces is very fit now. The Army I know changed it's training for women taking them out of the mixed sex training and placing them in single sex training platoons as women were being injured at an alarming rate by doing the physical training the men were. FieldDiscicpline will know what I'm talking about when I say that an extremely fit female soldier recently got all the way through all arms P company until she got to the log carry, that was simply too much and she failed because she couldn't keep up with the men. One of our fighters is a Para PTI with P company and he said she did really well, keep up with the men running, carrying but couldn't carry the log with the men.

    http://www.army.mod.uk/para/pegasus_p_company.htm


    If you click on the pictures of the trainees 'milling' you will see our fighter 'reffing' he's in the white and red vest.
     

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