How safe is Jujutsu or Judo?

[Tez3]

You think kung fu is dangerous? Ffs man try football!

It obviously is in some places. The prevalence and causes of bodily injuries in martial art kung-fu Biomedical Human Kinetics

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That getting thrown to a mat every night at 3x a week for over a decade can cause back pain or a sniff neck. All the pains and aches of the back and neck.

I have been thrown on the ground in training for the past 40 years. I don't have any body issue as you have described.

If you can't treat yourself as a "bouncing ball - get back up on your feet without using your hands" and consider to be thrown on the ground as "free body massage", the throwing art may not be for you. Just by looking at how fast that you can get back up after being thrown on the ground, you can tell whether you have found the right MA style for you or not.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If you can't treat yourself as a "bouncing ball" and consider to be thrown on the ground as "free body massage", the throwing art may not be for you. Just by looking at how fast that you can get back up after being thrown on the ground, you can tell whether you have found the right MA style for you or not.

I have been thrown on the ground in training as shown in the following clip for the past 40 years. I don't have any body issue as you have described.

Yeah, learning to trust your ukemi is a huge factor. That took me a while.

 

[pgsmith]

Talking about martial arts on-line is far safer than actually training in one.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Talking about martial arts on-line is far safer than actually training in one.

I don't know. You can get carpal tunnel from all the typing.

 

[moonhill99]

Kung Fu Wang, post: 1697861, member: 28970"]I have been thrown on the ground in training for the past 40 years. I don't have any body is="Kung Fu Wang, post: 1697861, member: 28970"

Are you in sports Judo or sports Jujutsu or not? Do you go with throw or joint lock or you try to resist?

Unless of course you live in Japan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/sports/japan-confronts-hazards-of-judo.html?_r=0



There was a video on youtube showing all moves that are now banned in Judo and many throws and take downs no longer being allowed.

It would be hard to find Judo school teaching these old moves these days.

Well you don't have to train competitively anyway, just learn the art for its own sake. It's a whole different mindset and you will find when people are focused more on learning than winning they tend to be a bit gentler with each other.


I'm more into the combative and self defense of the art anyways than sports and competition.

So traditional Japanese jujitsu had limited striking because why would you do a lot of striking fighting in feudal period in Japan fighting samurai in body armor.

Where combative schools teaching self defense or more combative use for army where mixed in a lot more striking.


It's a whole different mindset and you will find when people are focused more on learning than winning they tend to be a bit gentler with each other


A lot what I read is if you resist a throw or lock you could get injuries. That trying to be man with big ego and tough and all can get injuries.





I have been thrown on the ground in training for the past 40 years. I don't have any body issue as you have described.

If you can't treat yourself as a "bouncing ball - get back up on your feet without using your hands" and consider to be thrown on the ground as "free body massage", the throwing art may not be for you. Just by looking at how fast that you can get back up after being thrown on the ground, you can tell whether you have found the right MA style for you or not.

My family suffers from joint problems. And bad knee and hip problems!! That is why I'm asking.

And I don't have arthritis yet, but my knee is stiff and the cold makes it more stiff. Where the hot warm makes it better.

I was scared it could trigger arthritis.

I don't know why, but my family suffers from joint problems.

I think a lot has to do with how strong your body is and my body is really week.

I think Judo or Jujutsu the non sports is lot safer and better on the joints.

Where arthritis is genetics and sports could trigger it early.

My family suffers from knee, hip, back and shoulder problem.

Going for a walk every day seem to help one of them with the hip and knee problem. Than being overweight and all that weight on the joints.

 

[moonhill99]

Any martial art carries the potential for injury. The smarter you and your partners train, the more you can mitigate that risk. Regardless, the risk is always there.

In 33 years of training I have had:

A broken wrist
A broken hand
A broken finger
A dislocated shoulder
2 cut tendons
At least a couple of mild concussions
Countless bruises
Lots of strains and pulled muscles
A few sprains
I have a bit of arthritis, which might or might not be worse from my training
I have some deterioration of my lumbar vertebrae, which might or might not be worse from my training

I'm also in much better overall physical and emotional shape that I would be if I had spent my all my free time reading and playing on the computer, which is what I would be doing if I wasn't training martial arts.

For me the trade-off is totally worth it.

Tony not sure what other martial arts you training in but I thought you are training in Brazilian jiu jitsu?

Brazilian jiu jitsu and Aikido is lot safer than Judo or Japanese jiujitsu that is lot more rough and prone to injuries from what I read.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you go with throw or joint lock or you try to resist?

You don't resist in skill "developing" but you do resist in skill "testing". Even in "testing", it's better to lose a round then to have a broken ankle. Few things can reduce the injury:

- Only resist to 80% and never resist to 100%. Save that 20% for your own safety.
- Avoid sacrifice throw.
- Never throw your opponent 1/2 way.
- Try not to drag your opponent down with you when your opponent throws you.
- Avoid joint twisting throws that involve with "elbow cracking", "neck cracking", "Knee twisting", "spine twisting", ...
- Don't smash your opponent's head direct on to the ground.
- When your opponent holds on one of your leg and sweep/hook your other leg (as shown in the following pictures), you should protect your head and don't let your face or the back of your head to hit on the ground. Do prepare for the "hard" landing.
- When your opponent lifts you up and throws you over his shoulder (as shown in the following clip), since you won't know which part of your body will land first, you should try to protect your head and forget about break fall. A heavy landing on your head can be more serious than a broken leg or a broken arm.
- ...

 

[oftheherd1]

I agree that in Judo there are injuries usually caused by not doing a break fall correctly or the constant landing hard on the mats. Judo involves hard practices and the longer your body is put through the riggers of this training the more likely you are apt to have an injury but that is true with most martial arts that have hard contact of any kind

I think that is probably true of all MA that have throwing as part of their MA.

Any martial art can result in unintentional injuries.

That's part of being a martial artist. Learning to minimize your risk is something you should be learning in your school.

This is of course very true, and in any sport, not just MA. I think what most people don't take into consideration is that not everyone is capable of excelling in every sport, or sometimes, in any sport. Some just don't have the mental or physical ability to excel. They may do well, but they won't be part of the cream of the crop. Some people don't accept they aren't physically able to do what others can do. Many of them end up getting hurt because they push themselves beyond the capabilities of their minds or bodies. That is true of MA, and professional sports athletes. That is why not everyone can be a professional athlete.

From what I read there are more injuries in competition Judo or if you try to resist a move.

If they are trying to throw you and you don't go with it you are more prone to injuries.

Please remember that the next time someone is criticizing a demonstrated technique because the opponent doesn't seem to be resisting. Also see K-man's comments on being hurt by a Hapkidoist (sorry about that, it shouldn't have happened).

I ask this because my family has a history of knee and hip problems. And this year my knee have been giving me problems.

One of my family had back problems.


And arthritis runs in the family. And I think I may be prone to it. In the morning or if it is cold my knees are a bit stiff.


I'm trying to eat cheese and dairy products every day to have strong bones and joints. My bones are bit thin and bonny

That is something you need to take into consideration in your study of martial arts. Maybe you need to look for an MA that doesn't put your body under the type of stress that is more prone to causing injury. Or, after talking to a doctor, you may find he recommends that type of study to strengthen your body. Different martial arts have preferences in how they perform fighting. You may prefer one over another, but your body may have a preference you should take into consideration as well.

 

[Spinedoc]

Conversely, I always feel worse when I haven't been practicing. I was just on holiday for a week, and didn't get any Aikido or Iaido in, and felt stiff, sore, and generally, just not good. Went to practice last night, and feel 1000 times better today. YMMV.

 

[Langenschwert]

Judo is plenty dangerous, almost too dangerous. I have never seen a more injury-prone martial art, and one of my arts involves swinging steel swords at other people, and results in FAR less injuries than Judo. I'm still recovering from my broken fibula from Judo. Almost there, and I have resumed training, although not standing randori yet. Newaza is fine now. That being said, a broken bone is not as damaging as a sedentary lifestyle. That will mess you up far worse in the long run. And there are plenty of sports that are worse.

However, there are steps yo can take to lessen the chance of injury. Learn your breakfalls and that will take care of a lot of it. Don't struggle too hard. The most important thing is to listen to your gut. Some people don't care if they hurt people in randori. Don't spar those people, ever, even when you're a higher belt level. It's just not worth it. When your gut says "this is a bad idea", listen to it and walk away for a break or something. That's what I'll do going forward.

 

[moonhill99]

Judo is plenty dangerous, almost too dangerous. I have never seen a more injury-prone martial art, and one of my arts involves swinging steel swords at other people, and results in FAR less injuries than Judo. I'm still recovering from my broken fibula from Judo. Almost there, and I have resumed training, although not standing randori yet. Newaza is fine now. That being said, a broken bone is not as damaging as a sedentary lifestyle. That will mess you up far worse in the long run. And there are plenty of sports that are worse.

However, there are steps yo can take to lessen the chance of injury. Learn your breakfalls and that will take care of a lot of it. Don't struggle too hard. The most important thing is to listen to your gut. Some people don't care if they hurt people in randori. Don't spar those people, ever, even when you're a higher belt level. It's just not worth it. When your gut says "this is a bad idea", listen to it and walk away for a break or something. That's what I'll do going forward.

So you would say Jujutsu or Aikido is safer? Why is Judo so bad? Or is it mostly in sports and people resisting too much.

A self defense Judo safer than sports one.

Some Judo schools more unsafe than others.

 

[moonhill99]

That being said, a broken bone is not as damaging as a sedentary lifestyle. That will mess you up far worse in the long run. And there are plenty of sports that are worse. .

I may have to see a doctor about my family history problems and the possibility I may be getting it or damaging done from a sedentary lifestyle.

Base on this well Aikido may be safer.

I have no pain or stiff joints but I have been having knee problems running up a steep hill. Where my knee was sorta of giving out. And sore for almost a week.

I don't want any thing that could trigger arthritis.

And if Jujutsu and Judo does this it is big game changer. I thought taekwondo and some karate big on high kicks and fancy flying,jumping,spinning,twisting and jump kicks so on would be harder on the knees.

I looked at the throws,take downs,wrist locks,pins and holds and thought Jujutsu ,Judo or Aikido was best for me. With Jujutsu being really good.

But some here say it could be dangerous and destroy your joints.

With my family having joint problems and possibility I could get arthritis.

Some say here if you have arthritis it could help by exercising your joints.

What are the first signs of arthritis? Should I get bone scan and okay from doctor? Could some doctors say yes or no to it? Like some members here say it could cause arthritis and others say it could help if you have arthritis.

 

[Langenschwert]

Talk to your doctor. Martial arts aren't going to put you through any kind of stress that you wouldn't get from other sports. It's better to get more exercise than less, provided you're not overtraining. A friend of mine held off arthritis in her hands by playing piano all the time. Any kind of physical activity will put stress on the body. Being a couch potato puts stress on your whole system and can lead to a plethora of problems.

 

[K-man]

So you would say Jujutsu or Aikido is safer? Why is Judo so bad? Or is it mostly in sports and people resisting too much.

I have probably had more problems with Aikido (plus Hapkido) than any other martial art. I've had some cuts and broken bones from karate but the have healed. I have had joint hyper extension from Aikido and that is much longer lasting.

 

[Spinedoc]

I have probably had more problems with Aikido (plus Hapkido) than any other martial art. I've had some cuts and broken bones from karate but the have healed. I have had joint hyper extension from Aikido and that is much longer lasting.

Not mention the occasional poorly taken break fall such as the one I took the other day in jiyu waza, when uke decided to hit me with a tai otoshi from a yokomen strike and I was completely unprepared for it. Left flank is still sore. LOL.

 

[Steve]

Any martial arts training at a reputable school will be reasonably safe, regardless of style. Ultimately, it gets to the old saying, "If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse."

The real question here isn't whether Judo is safe enough for you. It's, do you really want to train in judo?

If the contact is a concern for you, just accept it and move on. Find a style that trains with less contact... or no contact. If your goal is simply to be more fit, find a cross fit gym, or join Planet Fitness. But if you really want to learn Judo or jujutsu (or BJJ), find a school that feels right to you and give it a shot. Frankly, not training because you might possibly develop arthritis in the future (maybe) just sounds like and excuse you're trying out for later, when you talk to your friends and say, "Yeah, I would have trained in Judo, but unfortunately, it's too dangerous and I have arthritis. I probably would have been really good at it."

 

[Steve]

CDC - Arthritis - Physical Activity for Arthritis - Overview

According to the CDC, sports don't cause arthritis and are actually very beneficial to people who have or are prone to arthritis genetically.

Although an injury to a joint could lead to arthritis, the attached link discusses the benefits of sports and other "vigorous activities." Many of the suggested activities highlight things like balancing exercises and intense strength building/aerobic activities. BJJ and Judo provide both. The prevailing wisdom nowadays seems to have moved away from the idea that you should "rest your joints" and is now squarely in the "use it or lose it" camp. Maybe you should avoid actually stepping into an MMA ring, but the training itself can surely be done safely and in a way where you would benefit.

All of that said, if you have or believe you might have a serious, degenerative condition, I think you should consider talking to a doctor before you do ANY kind of exercise.

 

[Spinedoc]

This ^^^^^. I see patients and practice in non operative spine care (PM&R) all day long. I see tons of low back pain secondary to degenerative arthritis. I will tell you exactly what I tell them. "There has only been one thing in any clinical study ever done that has been shown to slow the progression of degenerative arthritis.....(long pause).....ACTIVITY!, that's it. Medications don't, injections don't, surgery doesn't, they all help treat symptoms but do nothing to change the course of arthritis"

 

[moonhill99]

This ^^^^^. I see patients and practice in non operative spine care (PM&R) all day long. I see tons of low back pain secondary to degenerative arthritis. I will tell you exactly what I tell them. "There has only been one thing in any clinical study ever done that has been shown to slow the progression of degenerative arthritis.....(long pause).....ACTIVITY!, that's it. Medications don't, injections don't, surgery doesn't, they all help treat symptoms but do nothing to change the course of arthritis"

I probably should see doctor about my joint problems and fear it may get worse.

I'm scared to do any cardio exercises like running,jogging,treadmill, elliptical, jumping rope,going up hill so on because of the impact on the knees.

There is also the probability because of the sedentary lifestyle I may have done damage to my joints or I lack muscles for those work outs. And need to hit the gym and start lifting weights before I can do any thing.