How important in Conditioning to you

[Bill Mattocks]

Physical fitness is good. That said, it's not the be-all and end-all. Better to be fit than not, yes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

True fighting doesn't require much cardiovascular conditioning. Most real fights are over very, very quickly. I don't think any real fights go on for 36 minutes (not including 11 minutes of rest time) like a pro boxing fight does. No conditioning is really necessary if true fighting effectiveness is your goal.

Conditioning is absolutely necessary for competition. And better conditioning is absolutely necessary for more effective training. The better condition you're in, the longer you can train at a higher intensity without fatigue setting in.

The better shape you're in, the healthier you are in a lot of ways (but not all ways). There's no good reason to not try to get in better shape. But to solely make you a better fighter (not competitor) isn't really one of them.

All IMO.

I would argue that some conditioning is of benefit for defensive fighting. Certainly, any comparison to McGregor is I'll-conceived, but it does help if we can push past a minute or two of hard training, if only for the benefit the training brings. I can conceive of defensive situations where some endurance would be helpful, as well.

 

[JR 137]

I would argue that some conditioning is of benefit for defensive fighting. Certainly, any comparison to McGregor is I'll-conceived, but it does help if we can push past a minute or two of hard training, if only for the benefit the training brings. I can conceive of defensive situations where some endurance would be helpful, as well.

I agree with that. There are some cases, but from the fights I've been in and the ones I've seen, IMO they're few and far between.

For actual fighting, conditioning is like owning a gun - it's far better to have it and never need it than it is to not have it and need it. Note that I don't own a gun.

 

[JR 137]

I also think conditioning is overrated/thought of as more than what it really is (for lack of a better way to put it).

After a fight, people realize their heart is racing and their breathing is erratic.

Is this due to
1) being out of shape?
2) the adrenaline dump/fight or flight response?
3) poor technique where they are tensing up and holding their breath?

If it's mainly 2 and/or 3, more conditioning isn't really going to noticeably improve it, is it?

I think it's a combination of 2 and 3, but that's just me.

 

[DanT]

yes and no, the benefit of exercise is that it causes adaptations, the exercise only has to be long enough to causes the,adaptations you desire, doing 45 mins of body weight exercises is no better than doing 5mins of,exercises, if the intensity of the,exercises is,such that 5mins is all you can do till your body shuts down.

the only benefit of doing 45 mins of,light exercises is that it trains you to do 45 mins of light exercise, if you goal is to be,able to do 5mins of max intensity, like say a fight, then its of next to no use in building to your goal.

its the same with the running time you identify, a45 min jog, doesn't help if if you want to sprint up hills, or just,sprint, there isn't a one,size fits all do it for this,amount of time,solution to fitness

While I agree, I'm referring to 45 minutes of intense calisthenics not necessarily for the Cardio Benefit, but for the strength gained in both the muscles and joints. Exersizes such as push-ups, pull-ups, squats, burpees, sit-ups, tuck jumps, etc are all exercises which will help strengthen the muscles and joints.

 

[drop bear]

I would argue that some conditioning is of benefit for defensive fighting. Certainly, any comparison to McGregor is I'll-conceived, but it does help if we can push past a minute or two of hard training, if only for the benefit the training brings. I can conceive of defensive situations where some endurance would be helpful, as well.

The saying we have is nobody goes in to a fight wishing they had less cardio.

Otherwise I can gas a guy out in about 30/seconds and then use his fatigue to put him on his back.

If that was a street fight and I was an especially vindictive that guy is now in real trouble.

 

[jobo]

I agree with that. There are some cases, but from the fights I've been in and the ones I've seen, IMO they're few and far between.

For actual fighting, conditioning is like owning a gun - it's far better to have it and never need it than it is to not have it and need it. Note that I don't own a gun.

i agree that fights are generaly short, maybe less than a min , that is because, a) someone breaks it up b) one person completely over powers the other one,c) one party runs out of fitness d) both run out of fitness. And they are just pushing and pulling at each other with no strengh left.

b and c are my preference, provided that its not me that gets over powered or gasses, .

to suggest you don't need conditioning as fights are short, ignores the fact that in a lot of cases fights are short because one person is better conditioned than the other.

i agree that having the ability to run a half marathon isn't required, but the ability to last longer than the other guy is a must have, or its you on the loosing side, and as you don't generaly get to choose who you fight, its better to aim on the safe side

 

[Buka]

Hopefully, views on peak condition vs not so great condition, as each applies to training, fighting and self defense are based on having experienced both rather than on conjecture alone.

And if you've never been in absolute peak condition you honestly don't know what you're missing. You would fricken' love it.

Don't mind me. I just dropped in to see what condition everyone's condition was in.

 

[Danny T]

If you are not In the fight at the end of the fight you lost and your condition will be most likely be poor.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I believe in being at a high level of physical conditioning and my work requires that of me. Constantly changing up your routine by doing various exercises will give you variety and hit different muscles. The key to any conditioning is to incorporate both Aerobic (with air) and Anaerobic (without air) training. An example of aerobic conditioning would be going for a long distance run while and example of anaerobic conditioning would be sprinting. Having a varied workout routine will keep you in shape, fit, healthy and ready for a moment of violence. Besides martial training I like to hike, bike, run, sprint, paddle board, kayak, lift weights, swim, etc. I incorporate fitness into all of my activities. If I am going to being shooting firearms besides stationary shooting I will add in movement with shooting. To take it a step further I will sprint then shoot, do push ups and shoot and have even incorporated lifting exercises with shooting.

Now, I agree with several people above that typically violent encounters happen very fast and are over quickly and that a lot of the time you do not need professional athlete level conditioning. However, for myself I believe in being in shape, fit and ready to go and that level of fitness does give you an edge and that may be all that you need!

 

[jobo]

While I agree, I'm referring to 45 minutes of intense calisthenics not necessarily for the Cardio Benefit, but for the strength gained in both the muscles and joints. Exersizes such as push-ups, pull-ups, squats, burpees, sit-ups, tuck jumps, etc are all exercises which will help strengthen the muscles and joints.

well yes it sounds like a good work out, but my point was two fold, one) you posted that people SHOULD do a 45 min work out, there is nothing magical about 45 mins, i have,seen it written that you shouldn't really exceed this , but never that it was The time you should do. A twenty min or even a 10 min will work just as well if you increase the intensity . That give my second point, second) no one can do a high intensity work out for,45 mins, well not with out ending up in hospital anyway. If you are going for 45 mins its at best a moderate intensity work out, you may have little islands of high intensity in there,. But it is most certainly not a high intensity 45 min work out. You have to be a pretty good athlete to do more than 3mins of high intensity, for instance try doing a pull up that lasts 3mins, now that's intense

 

[KenpoMaster805]

conditioning is very important in our lives specially when doing Martial Arts you habe to have stamena and strong and sharp its good when you do sparring or technique to make your body feel more strong

 

[Anarax]

Had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day and he was blowing up on the importance on conditioning.

TBH i am in 2 minds about how important it is.

on one hand you can say that it you are sparring'drilling/rolling enough then you don't need extra conditioning. some people say that you get all your work from being active.

I guess to some level thats true, but there is a limit to how much the body can take of that sort of punishment. Having other sorts of conditioning can be beneficial to give you a break from contact.

Also rolling etc isn't constant conditioning, if you are skilled enough or if there is a big enough skill gap between you are your partner then they amount of conditioning you'll get is limited.

Does this only apply to high level competitors though?

also, if we focus a lot on conditioning is there a danger of changing what you do in to crossfit with punches and kicks?

Cardiovascular conditioning is important for a martial artist regardless of the system. Even if you have a more cardio intense system like BJJ, Kickboxing, Karate etc. It will benefit your MA training by helping you last longer in you MA drills/sparring. If you're doing a power drill but gas out and start hitting lightly, then you're not getting the full benefit of the drill. Being dependent on only one form of exercise is a bad idea overall. Diversifying your training regiment will help keep your body fit and ready. I used to be a triathlete and I can tell you fit in one activity doesn't automatically make you fit in another. Swimming was the most exhausting, and I was already running and biking for years before I started swimming.

 

[Anarax]

I forgot to add isolated conditioning in my reply. Isolated exercise or drills are also crucial. You should focus on specific muscles used for punching, kicking, sweeping, throwing, etc. All of those techniques require certain muscle activation, drilling those specific muscle groups make you faster and stronger. Thus when you use those techniques in sparring or in encounters you are more effective in your execution. Only relying on sparring or rolling to train those muscles is very limiting. How many punches will you throw in a few rounds of sparring? Maybe a few hundred at most. How many will you throw in a punching drill? I can attest over a thousand in some Karate punching drills. You're training the muscles you use for punching more in drills than sparring. Knowing how to throw a punch isn't enough, having those muscles trained along with knowledge is much more important.

 

[FighterTwister]

You guys are all talking about cardio conditioning. Guess I'm weird, my mind immediately went to conditioning your body (hitting makiwara, conditioning shins/legs, etc.)

From that point of view also as a martial artist starting young I mean you should hardened your knuckles, shin bones and elbows, strengthen your wrist and neck muscles, and loosen your shoulders, elbow and hip joints......... etc...... so yes of course.

It should be part of your martial arts training regime.

But then add all the fitness as well...............

1. Stretches - Flexibility Conditioning.
2. Exercises - Mobility Conditioning
3. Light Weights - Strength Conditioning
4. Relaxation and Recovery - Natural Healing Conditioning

Basically you got to develop that into a good Weekly to Monthly Personal Development Plan using a planner, diary, Excel sheets or whatever you prefer.

There are heaps of online Workout Planner Templates as well.

Its all choice and how much you want to achieve in martial arts but decades past this is what most martial artist would do especially in most Asian countries like Thailand or the Philippians...................

MUAY THAI primitive training

Shin Conditioning Science

I haven't gone that far but using other methods that best suited me I have used when I was younger.

Its interesting how it works as small bone fibres crack build stronger bone around it.

The human body is its own source to great conditioning all depends why, what or how you want to achieve.

Do you want to go to Thailand and compete for example or do you want to go high in rank and master all that can be mastered.

If its just a weekly sport you attend then answer would be no not needed, if you want to reach a higher level of being a martial artist and your potential in competition than yes do it.

All about choices, to further add even if you want to be a Navy Seal conditioning the body will pay-off as attributes and skills of fitness and physical condition to meet the rigorous requirements of becoming a SEAL.

Something I would have liked to have done that is becoming a Navy SEAL, they are tough doods.

Back in my school days I knew a guy that was training to become a Navy Seal or an SAS special forces soldier he was also into martial arts and fitness and studying sports science so on.

 

[FighterTwister]

Hopefully, views on peak condition vs not so great condition, as each applies to training, fighting and self defense are based on having experienced both rather than on conjecture alone.

And if you've never been in absolute peak condition you honestly don't know what you're missing. You would fricken' love it.

Don't mind me. I just dropped in to see what condition everyone's condition was in.

Perfect, I like it when people know their stuff and on point!

 

[Tarrycat]

It's not important in our training, as we don't take part in tournaments &/or competitions. However, I've seen videos on Youtube where our grandmaster would encourage conditioning to the point where his students would bleed from their heads, so it's an interesting topic to discuss in my dojo.

I do think that conditioning is very helpful. You never know when you might get into a fight; you'll then absorb the strikes or kicks better.

What I would say is very important for any martial art, is stretching on a daily basis. I tore a back muscle by doing Zenpo Kaiten when I started. It hurt like hell! I couldn't drive my car without feeling it...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The only thing I read here are assumptions and opinions and everyone acts like it's the truth, interesting to see.......

You could do a whole study only about the responses in this thread

Just a sidenote

Were you expecting people to post the results of the studies they did for their Masters theses? The thread asked for opinions.

 

[Tarrycat]

The only thing I read here are assumptions and opinions and everyone acts like it's the truth, interesting to see.......

You could do a whole study only about the responses in this thread

Just a sidenote

There is NO truth in what I said. Everything is based on my own experience. I consider conditioning to be very helpful in some cases. I don't know enough about it to give you any information that is based on facts. In fact, that's what this website encourages, OPINIONS & helpful critique. Nothing is factual until it can be proven. So...

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If you're talking competition, conditioning is of paramount importance.
If you're talking fighting, it's less so. Most real fights last seconds.

Generally true, but even if you only train for self-defense there are some good reasons to train your conditioning.

• You might have to fight for a bit and then run. Good to have some lung power left to do so.
• You might be running away from your assailants, get caught, and then have to fight. Good to not already be exhausted.
• You might have to fight after some other exhausting activity - digging your car out of a snow bank or helping a friend move all his furniture into his new 3rd story apartment.
• The better conditioned you are, the longer you can train and spar, resulting in a higher skill level available when you need it for real.
• Even if you don't ever get into a fight, being in good shape will help your general health and quality of life.

My conditioning isn't at the level I want it to be, but it's all relative. I'm comparing myself to the serious amateur and professional competitors and fighters I often work out with who are half my age. Compared to them, I'm in pathetic shape and can only hang with them in sparring because I know how to move efficiently and conserve my energy. On the other hand, if you compare me to my peer group of 53 year old computer programmers, I'm in fantastic shape. Putting my ego aside, I'd rather compare myself to the young fighters, because it gives me motivation to train harder.