How does Grasping Eagles effectively deal with the attacker behind you?

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - Technical Discussion' started by TheRealMickyT, May 1, 2015.

  1. TheRealMickyT

    TheRealMickyT White Belt

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    Hi all, first post and I'm hoping the collective wisdom can answer this.

    Grasping Eagles, as per the manual we have and seemingly according with Mr. Tatum and Mr Wedlake is as follows:

    1. Standing naturally, execute left inward block to the outside of Attacker 1's right arm and a right front snapping ball kick to his groin (attacking from 12 o'clock). At the same time, deliver a right back hammer fist strike to the groin of Attacker 2 (attacking from 6 o'clock)

    2. Immediately plant your right foot forward to 12 o'clock (buckling Attacker 1's right knee if it is in line of the move) and deliver a right thrusting heel palm strike to the chin of Attacker 1. Simultaneously, deliver a left back underhand heel palm strike to groin of Attacker 2.

    3. Deliver a left front snapping ball kick to groin of Attacker 1.

    4. From Point of Contact plant your left foot back to gauge distance and immediately deliver a right back thrusting kick to stomach of Attacker 2.

    5. Right front crossover and double cover out toward 9 o'clock.

    Setting aside minor alterations, my issue is this: it would appear the only time we do something specifically focused upon, and devastating, to the attacker behind us is right at the end. First move, there is a rear hammer fist to the groin but we are focusing on the forward attacker and there is no guarantee it hits the target.

    Then we have another strike to the groin of the rear attacker, but again, we are focusing forward and still may be ineffective.

    Then we front kick forward then finally deliver a significant attack behind with the back kick.

    So we do a whole lot of damage to the front attacker and very little (guaranteed) damage to the rear attacker till the end.

    Understanding that the front and back kicks maximise travel, why wouldn't you right back kick and then left front kick?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2015
  2. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    The question should be, why are you kicking in a multiple opponent situation?
     
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  3. TheRealMickyT

    TheRealMickyT White Belt

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    I'm working within the logic of the technique as written, accepting the kicks exist, don't we leave ourselves vulnerable from the rear attacker for way too long?
     
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  4. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't play with these too much, but speed of action is Key. :)
     
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I will have a go at this.

    It is a concept in that you are fighting forwards and backwards at the same time. Not crippling both attackers. So unless you turn around you will not effectively deal with the guy behind you regardless of what you throw.
     
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  6. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    True, but if caught unaware, a hammer fist to the groin and a forearm to the throat, can tend to give one pause. Keep in mind this is just an exercise, in understanding that your reverse motion is just as deadly as your forward motion, if you play your cards right.
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah. I can see the idea behind creating some space.
     
  8. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    As Doc would point out, what is the Psychology of Confrontation in this scenario? A single attacker grabbing from behind like this would be different than what is presented here.

    An assumption with this scenario in mind would be that the attacker from behind is holding you in place to set up the attacker from the front. They are not both "attacking" with the intent to hurt you at the same time. Otherwise, the rear attacker would be either sucker punching you, or picking you up for a body slam/tackle from the rear.

    As far as the kick in a multiple attacker scenario, the attacker from the rear actually aids in your stability to perform the kick, because his job is to hold you in place to be punched from the front.

    I did a variation of this one time in a multiple attack sparring scenario in class. Somewhat artificial, but had to stand with my eyes closed and then respond when the first person made contact. Obviously, this meant that the first contact was usually a grab of somekind as opposed to just sucker punching the "good guy" LOL. Anyways, the first guy grabbed me from behind in a rear bear hug and pinned my arms. As I opened my eyes, the second guy was coming towards me, and all I could do was front kick him to buy time. Since arms were pinned, I did a groin grab and the second guy let go of the bear hug.
     
  9. Sifu Cole

    Sifu Cole White Belt

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    Before you get to step two, try thinking of step one, your right arm, as Obscure Wing. Not the first elbow, but the hammer fist, then, drive your right elbow upwards, dragging it through the attackers body and hitting the zyphoid Process. Hurts very much bad. Makes the guy behind have to figure out which part of his anatomy he needs to grab.

    I like that method because the guy in the back is hopefully bent ovet from the groin strike, and he eats the obscure elbow. This sequential flow also keeps rhe back guy from recovering enough that you now have gained the dimension of time while an attacjer is in your obcure zone.

    If you look ay two man attacks closely, you see the lower belt techniques inside them.

    Clark
     

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