How do you rate this jeans and boots roundhouse kick?

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,230
Reaction score
4,920
Location
San Francisco
When your opponent catches your kicking leg, if you pull your leg back, it won't work. If you drop all your weight on your leading leg and step down (follow with a hammer fist on top of his head), your opponent may not be able to hold on your entire body weight.

So to step down after kicking instead of to pull your kicking leg back is a training to counter a leg catching.

In CMA, a kick is a step, a step is a kick.
Sure, this is one scenario. It depends. It isn’t always one way.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
When your opponent catches your kicking leg, if you pull your leg back, it won't work. If you drop all your weight on your leading leg and step down (follow with a hammer fist on top of his head), your opponent may not be able to hold on your entire body weight.

So to step down after kicking instead of to pull your kicking leg back is a training to counter a leg catching.

In CMA, a kick is a step, a step is a kick.
not sure if you two are talking about the same kick
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
1,156
Not sure how it looks but it could fall under either one depending on if the that offstep resets you or guides you into the next strike or next defense.

If it's resets you then it would be Western Thinking. 1-2-3- reset.
If it guides you to the next strike or block then it's more Eastern thinking.

I personally use both methods of thinking. But I lean more towards the Eastern thinking by default, because long fist pretty much requires it, unless you want to take frequent unplanned naps during training .
Well, I understand both sides as my initial training was in WC.

But to answer your question, both. Sometimes we would still say, roundhouse plant reset offline.
Sometimes roundhouse plant offline hook cross etc.

It all depended on what our instructor came up with for us that day.

The main difference being in cma the sequences were set and memorized(cma), or dynamic and variable (mma)
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,971
Reaction score
10,526
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Well that depends. At my old mma club we would do a lot of drilling on roundhouse kick to offline step.
I'd been working on something similar. We (at the NGA dojo) were taught kick-and-retract, but I don't find I use that as much as kick-and-enter. I've been playing with other options, like that offline step. It just feels better than retracting every time, especially with a roundhouse kick.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
I'd been working on something similar. We (at the NGA dojo) were taught kick-and-retract, but I don't find I use that as much as kick-and-enter. I've been playing with other options, like that offline step. It just feels better than retracting every time, especially with a roundhouse kick.
The roundhouse kick is like the foot sweep, I have never heard anybody retracts a foot sweep.

You want your leg to go through your opponent's body. Going through is the opposite of retracting.

Chang-foot-sweep.gif


Lin-sweep-1.gif


Even the front kick, if you kick on a target all the time, pretty soon, you will forget about to retract your kick. You just want your kicking power to go as deeper as possible into the target.

jump-tree-kick.gif
 
Last edited:

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
1,156
I'd been working on something similar. We (at the NGA dojo) were taught kick-and-retract, but I don't find I use that as much as kick-and-enter. I've been playing with other options, like that offline step. It just feels better than retracting every time, especially with a roundhouse kick.
Position is everything. It's always best to be where you can attack and they can't. I think this might be one of the few points all martial artists of all stripes could actually agree on.
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
1,156
When you see an opening created on

- your opponent, you attack it.
- yourself, you close it.

It's common sense. Both CMA and MMA use the same strategy.
Well. We all agree that's a good idea. The strategies for getting it done can certainly vary wildly as can the results.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Well. We all agree that's a good idea. The strategies for getting it done can certainly vary wildly as can the results.
This is why when you throw a roundhouse kick and expose your back to your opponent, you will follow with a spin back fist.

The interest thing is if the spin back fist doesn't exist in your MA style, will you use it?

In other words, will you train MA according to your MA system, or will you train MA according to your common sense?

A: I was taught to retract my roundhouse kick.
B: How will you be able to use a right roundhouse kick to set up a right side kick if your opponent steps back?
A: In my MA style, we don't chase our opponents.
B: But it makes common sense. Your opponent steps back, you step in.
 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
Position is everything. It's always best to be where you can attack and they can't. I think this might be one of the few points all martial artists of all stripes could actually agree on.
I disagree

forgot to add the lol.
 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
In my MA style, we don't chase our opponents.
B: But it makes common sense. Your opponent steps back, you step in.
I don't chase. # 2 is more reliable
1. Your opponent steps back, you step in. (Your opponent controls)
2. You step in, your opponent steps back (You control)
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
I don't chase. # 2 is more reliable
1. Your opponent steps back, you step in. (Your opponent controls)
2. You step in, your opponent steps back (You control)
In 2, You step in, your opponent steps back (You control), you then step in again.

You attack your opponent's leading right leg, when he steps back, you attack his left leg. When your opponent shifts weight from one leg to another, opportunity has been created. If you don't chase your opponent, you may miss that opportunity.
 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
I'd been working on something similar. We (at the NGA dojo) were taught kick-and-retract, but I don't find I use that as much as kick-and-enter. I've been playing with other options, like that offline step. It just feels better than retracting every time, especially with a roundhouse kick.
In terms of time, successful strikes are determined by split seconds. Not all retracting of a kick is bad. So using the OP's video. If I were sparring him, I know 2 things.
1. The power of his kick won't flow through. It will travel 180 degrees and then then will retract. I can do a quick shuffle to the right or lean to the right a few inches so I can be at 190 degrees from the beginning of that kick. The kick will not hit me or it won't land with power because he trains to snap it back at 180 degrees.

2. His foot will take longer to reach the ground because the kick must be retracted in a way that takes longer. So I'll plan my attack to occur during the retraction of your kick. If I time the attack you will not be able to regain your root in time. I only need to travel as fast as your retraction because my distance that I need to travel is shorter than the distance that the kick has to retract + return to root.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
You attack your opponent's leading right leg, when he steps back, you attack his left leg. When your opponent shifts weight from one leg to another, opportunity has been created. If you don't chase your opponent, you may miss that opportunity.
This is not chasing to me, because you are the one who is controlling your opponent's movement. You move forward because you know your opponent will move back and when he does you will do Technique A. This is what I call guiding / positioning your opponent to where you need them to be to use Technique A.

If my kick miss, and then I'm forced to make adjustments because of his retreat, Now I'm the one changing. All of my adjustments are reacting to how he retreats.

If I want my opponent to move left, then I can make him move left. If I want my opponent to move right then I can make him move right. If I want him to retreat then I can make him retreat and take advantage of that retreat because I know that he will retreat and in which direction.

Think of it like Retreating vs Luring, which is the same thing but from the defender's point of view.
1. Retreating = ( Your opponent controls his advance towards your)
2. Luring = (You control your opponent's advance)
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,971
Reaction score
10,526
Location
Hendersonville, NC
The roundhouse kick is like the foot sweep, I have never heard anybody retracts a foot sweep.

You want your leg to go through your opponent's body. Going through is the opposite of retracting.

Chang-foot-sweep.gif


Lin-sweep-1.gif


Even the front kick, if you kick on a target all the time, pretty soon, you will forget about to retract your kick. You just want your kicking power to go as deeper as possible into the target.

jump-tree-kick.gif
I see the front kick like a punch. Sometimes, it's like a jab (used to set something else up or to control distance), so not so concerned about power. Other times, it's about power. Side kick would be the same to me if my side kick had any real speed....or power.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
I see the front kick like a punch. Sometimes, it's like a jab (used to set something else up or to control distance), so not so concerned about power. Other times, it's about power. Side kick would be the same to me if my side kick had any real speed....or power.

I ham having a lot of success with a quick stabby front kick. Rather than trying to push the guy too much.

I almost don't even chamber it much. Just snap it up and dig my big toe in to their liver.

I have dropped people with it.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
I ham having a lot of success with a quick stabby front kick.
I rarely say this, but this is the best way to use the front kick. Just make sure you pull your toes back so they don't jam or ribs or elbows.

The way that you made it possible for me to kick someone while I was moving backwards and I didn't miss a step. I can move forward with ease as well or to the side. The pushing front kick takes too long for me. I need something I can set off when someone is throwing punch combos at me. Push kicks you have to have your weight behind it. If you are using the same kick that I use, then you should be able to do this kick at an angle too.

If it's the same kick then I got a nice trick you can do in sparing using that kick. They'll hate you for it, but you'll have fun with it, because you can do it in a way that is safe for your sparring partner.
 

Latest Discussions

Top