I'm curious; some Isshin-Ryu schools (at least here in Virginia) have incorporated the Bando Horseman long stick kata into their style. How widespread has this kata become?
Horseman Bo Kata
- Thread starter jks9199
- Start date
Victor Smith
Blue Belt
Bando's Horseman's Footsoldiers Form (often referred to as the Horesman's form) was taught by Dr. Gyi at Bando Summer Camp in the early 80's. Isshinryu instructors in attendance picked it up. A few years later Reese Rigby of Dover Deleware won first place at the Bando Nationals with their form as I recall.
The Bando staff form covers a different range of motion than the other Isshinryu bo kata and is likely the reason those schools retained the kata.
I also practice and teach this form.
The Bando staff form covers a different range of motion than the other Isshinryu bo kata and is likely the reason those schools retained the kata.
I also practice and teach this form.
JWLuiza
Black Belt
Some of our TSD guys picked it up and did it at the Bohan tournament this past summer. I don't know it personally.
Victor Smith
Blue Belt
Searcher, The Bando Horseman's Footsoldier's from is more reminiscent of Chinese staff than Okinawan bo. Where the Okinawan Bo is normally held in the middle, the Bando staff works all 3 ranges, inner, middle and outer.
The techniques as explained to me were to strike into charging horsemen to shock the horse ( their staff was larger/thicker than a bo for this even though bo are used today), or to entangle the horse's feet, or to strike up to the rider.
In fact the concept was the staff bearer was likely giving his life standing into a charging horse line to cause a jam of horses to allow his fellows to clamber over the downed horses to fight the attackers.
Which of course may only be a good story, but good stories work if they make you train harder, too.
The version I know was reportedly all Dr. Gyi taught at a summer camp in the early 80's about 1/4 of the entire form. It allows my students to experience a different range of staff in addition to their Isshinryu studies.
The techniques as explained to me were to strike into charging horsemen to shock the horse ( their staff was larger/thicker than a bo for this even though bo are used today), or to entangle the horse's feet, or to strike up to the rider.
In fact the concept was the staff bearer was likely giving his life standing into a charging horse line to cause a jam of horses to allow his fellows to clamber over the downed horses to fight the attackers.
Which of course may only be a good story, but good stories work if they make you train harder, too.
The version I know was reportedly all Dr. Gyi taught at a summer camp in the early 80's about 1/4 of the entire form. It allows my students to experience a different range of staff in addition to their Isshinryu studies.
Jimi
Black Belt
I learned the Bando 4 Winds, then the 4 Corners, then when I learned the Horsemen form, I was instructed to chain all three forms together for the Footsoldier. I was told someone should not have the 4 Corners before the 4 Winds Etc... each form builds on skills from the previous form. With-out the previous Two (2) forms you are just showing off the Horsemen. LOL. I also know the Pilgrim & most of the Dissident Son as well. I am a Bastard in the ABA because I train under Prof. Jon Collins (Former Presdient of the ABA til he left more than 20 years ago over personal issues between He & Gyi). Those who know me & my association w/ Jon, know I am the most knowledgeable 1st Level Black Belt in the ABA, LOL. Most in the ABA do not like to use the term Kata, and prefer to use the term form. Its an Anti-Japanese Termonolgy thing. In the ABA they do not use the term Dan for Black Belt grades, they use Level. These are the forms engraved upon my heart.
Point, Square, Cross, Tee & Line (Guardian of the Sacred Passage)
4 Winds, 4 Corners, Horsemen, Pilgrim & Dissident Son
Hidden Draw & Mutiple Stick
Mountain Path Walking Stick (Created as a gift for Gyi by Jon Collins, Pat Finley as well as a few others & originaly presented By Dan Carroll)
Hooked Cane (Instructed 6th Lvl ABA BB, an old friend of Jon's, as a favor)
1-9 Kukri Drills & a simple Kukri Form
Eagle Form up to the sweep, Beginning of the Tiger Form
I love Bando (As Jon Collins has Instructed me) but the ABA (except for some Elders 6th & 7th Lvl BB's) hate to see me. LOL. Just what Jon wanted,(He is known to fingerprint a student with a rare or changed form & send him or her to the Nationals to get Gyi's attention) for the spoiled brats of Bando not to have the same knowledge as I. When I first competed in the ABA, most 5th Lvl BB's did not like the look of me & already knew who I was trained under (Jon) cause MR. Meekins informed the ABA that I had learned the Hooked Cane form from Jon. When I entered the Gym, every Black Belt I saw was staring angrily at me. Ron Meekins walked up to me (He had seen me being trained by Jon & never missed what we were working on) shook my hand then went straight to Gyi & pointed me out. LOL. After I competed, many Elders like Joe Manly, Bob Maxwell, Lloyd Davis & a few others patted me on the back saying, "You did remind us of when Jon was still here) a great compliment. Later after I tested to 1st Level Black Belt, Jon started inviting some old friends like Geoff Welcher to come to Balt. and re-learn Hooked Cane from us. That is where my Bando Pride is, When Jon uses my training to breath life back into old skills, some of which are no longer taught in the ABA.
The Horsemen is a great form. If you know it, do it well & breath life into it. If you do not do it well, Jon might just send me! LOL. PEACE JIMI
Point, Square, Cross, Tee & Line (Guardian of the Sacred Passage)
4 Winds, 4 Corners, Horsemen, Pilgrim & Dissident Son
Hidden Draw & Mutiple Stick
Mountain Path Walking Stick (Created as a gift for Gyi by Jon Collins, Pat Finley as well as a few others & originaly presented By Dan Carroll)
Hooked Cane (Instructed 6th Lvl ABA BB, an old friend of Jon's, as a favor)
1-9 Kukri Drills & a simple Kukri Form
Eagle Form up to the sweep, Beginning of the Tiger Form
I love Bando (As Jon Collins has Instructed me) but the ABA (except for some Elders 6th & 7th Lvl BB's) hate to see me. LOL. Just what Jon wanted,(He is known to fingerprint a student with a rare or changed form & send him or her to the Nationals to get Gyi's attention) for the spoiled brats of Bando not to have the same knowledge as I. When I first competed in the ABA, most 5th Lvl BB's did not like the look of me & already knew who I was trained under (Jon) cause MR. Meekins informed the ABA that I had learned the Hooked Cane form from Jon. When I entered the Gym, every Black Belt I saw was staring angrily at me. Ron Meekins walked up to me (He had seen me being trained by Jon & never missed what we were working on) shook my hand then went straight to Gyi & pointed me out. LOL. After I competed, many Elders like Joe Manly, Bob Maxwell, Lloyd Davis & a few others patted me on the back saying, "You did remind us of when Jon was still here) a great compliment. Later after I tested to 1st Level Black Belt, Jon started inviting some old friends like Geoff Welcher to come to Balt. and re-learn Hooked Cane from us. That is where my Bando Pride is, When Jon uses my training to breath life back into old skills, some of which are no longer taught in the ABA.
The Horsemen is a great form. If you know it, do it well & breath life into it. If you do not do it well, Jon might just send me! LOL. PEACE JIMI
Is there video footage of the Horseman Bo Kata?
Jimi
Black Belt
Those active in the ABA probably have footage. Its typical for those in the ABA not to let footage of exclusive forms winde up on video to be passed around. If you trained closely with or knew an ABA Black Belt, you may see it on video or maybe see it live if the ABA BB was willing to teach it first hand. There is the 4 Winds here on Martialtalk, the Bando Staff Form performed by Dan Carroll. This is the Beginning of the Footsoldier (As I was taught)= 4 winds & the last move in the 4 Winds before returning to a salute position is the opening move from salute position at the begining of the 4 Corners. So the last move of each form links it to the next. The End move of the 4 Corners is the opening move from salute (Point) for the Horsemen. When all three (3) forms are known well, then you flow right through, no stop= the Footsoldier. When I was fisrt learning Bando Staff (Dhot) work, It was great incentive to block and move correrctly with Jon Collins trying to strike you one so you knew it was sound. He would commonly watch as I reviewed a form while trying to kill me with his eyes. LOL. I am not sure, but I bet somone on the MT admin may have trained closley with Gyi and other ABA BBs, You may find someone willing to share it. I don't post video clips of Bando stuff or anything else for that matter. PEACE
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
That's a nice summary of the form. The "core" long staff in Bando uses both ends of the stick, both to strike & thrust, and the middle.
The Horseman-Footsoldier "story" is that a footsoldier is fighting mounted Mongols; the strikes are designed and intended to knock him off the horse or take him down -- or even take the horse down by smashing the legs.
If you check YouTube, there might be some footage of the more recent version (Many Bando forms have been reworked for various reasons over the years; I know two versions of Four Winds, another stick form, for example.) from a special presentation the ABA did a few years ago.
Most of the Isshin-ryu folks I've seen doing the form do it in a more rigid/less flowing pattern than we tend to use in Bando.
MatthewJB19904
White Belt
HI. I just came across this site and this posting. I am a student under Master Rigby and as luck would have it, Sensei just started teaching this kata to us last night (11/11/15). It was a surprise and a treat ! I love it so far. It's very powerful. Sensei did tell us about the competition that he won this with as well. I hope to get it down soon and perhaps compete with it. Good posts everyone. I can fill you in on anything you might have questions about and if I don't know I can ask Sensei Rigby. Thanks
