Horse Stance Training & Tae Kwon Do

[miguksaram]

This seems to have largely disappeared from most modern TKD schools. You know what I mean. The old 'settle into a deep horse stance' and hold it for 5-10 minutes. If you can, that is.

Do any of you believe this type of conditioning still has value? For 'traditional' TKD? How about for sport TKD? Has horse stance training disappeared for any other reasons than because it is boring and painful?

I find it does. If you are doing it correctly you can strengthen up your upper thigh muscels. I practice at karate school now and we definetly use them, but during my time is TKD I used push lower horse stance as well.

 

[chrispillertkd]

This seems to have largely disappeared from most modern TKD schools. You know what I mean. The old 'settle into a deep horse stance' and hold it for 5-10 minutes. If you can, that is.

When I Was teaching at my own small school I used to have the students do stance training in both annun sogi and gunnun sogi. It wouldn't go on for half an hour or anything but it would be for a few minutes in each stance (annun sogi and in each side for gunnun sogi). It was good for strengthening the legs and making sure the students could develo a good foundation. I'd also push on them from various angles while they were in each stance so they could work on resistance.

Do any of you believe this type of conditioning still has value? For 'traditional' TKD? How about for sport TKD? Has horse stance training disappeared for any other reasons than because it is boring and painful?

Oh, sure it has value. In fact, I was just doing some stance training yesterday on my own (in guburyo sogi on each leg for several minutes). The concept is so important that Gen. Choi included a special training aid in his encyclopedia called a "stance mold" that would help students focus on the basics of various types of stances, not just one stance.

Annun sogi does have some combat applications to it, although clearly not usually from the front facing position that people are used to when practicing punches. It can be quite helpful at attacking or defending from the side as well as being used to cover ground both towards and away from an opponent.

If by "sport TKD" you mean not just freesparring but specifically WTF sparring I'd say no. It has little if any benefit. You can see many high level sparring matches on youtube. There is little emphasis on having a good foundation when fighting. In fact, it is quite common for players to fall down directly after kicking someone. If that is OK then there's no reason to work on having good static balance (dynamic balance while moving is still important, of course).

I would say, however, that having a good foundation from a static stance training exercise is only half the battle. It is equally important, if not more important, to know how to move from one stance to another quickly and smoothly so that the student can fully mobilize body weight shifting when executing techniques, be able to move out of range of an attack quickly, move into range for their own attack, etc. But this actually means moving into and out of actual stances (or at least the semblance of stances), not executing a kick and falling over.

Pax,

Chris

 

[miguksaram]

A good drill is to get into a deep horse stance. Then raise up and do a front kick then sink back down in the horse stance again. Alternate legs. You can even do the same for round kicks and side kicks. If you do it correctly you will work your quads quite nicely.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

HAHAHAHA, really they used to do that?

Well, the school I went to didn't have 5 minutes to devote to that, in retrospect it would have probably saved a lot of time on telling everybody to 'bend your knees'

Yes, really, they did! I still practice it and still drill my students in it.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Ouch!!!! truth to be told I think I could not last more than 5 minutes siting in the horse stance.

Would my sambonim or I aske the students to hold the horse stance while we watch them to perform it well? Yes just to test the endurance of our kids but that's all.

Manny

I do tanjun breathing in a horse stance. I've never timed it, but I know that it is longer than ten minutes.

Daniel

 

[LiamBoyle]

If I may, I studied Chang Hon Tae Kwon Do years ago, but now primarily practice tai chi ch'uan as a martial art.

When I studied TKD, we did do stance training as part of our normal routine mostly in horse stance. In TCC, I ran in a practice called "Zhan Zhuang," post standing. In researching this part of TCC training, it shed some light on my why school thought this was important for TKD. The legs do get strengthened, but in a way that supports the postural function of the muscles as opposed to the phasic (moving) function of the muscles.

This can give a person a more stable and strong stance, so that techniques can actually be launched more quickly because the body spends less time stabilizing itself before moving.

The second point of "Zhan Zhuang" type stance training is to reinforce good posture and body mechanics. The tucking of the pelvis in both males and females relieves stress on the lower back. Using a stance like horse stance can help open the hips, also. Just my thoughts on it, YMMV.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

We incorporate horse stance into many things we do. In the lower belt gradings hand techs are demonstrated in horse stance, it also comes up in the palgwe forms we do along with keum gang and many self defence techs end in a horse stance. I find it good for strengthening the upper legs.

 

[zDom]

HAHAHAHA, really they used to do that?

Well, the school I went to didn't have 5 minutes to devote to that, in retrospect it would have probably saved a lot of time on telling everybody to 'bend your knees'

"HAHAHAHA" ? Nice. Any other part of traditonal martial art training you would like to mock and ridicule?

We still do this.

Static positions are beneficial for strength training. Not to say we don't also do dynamic strength exercises, because we do and they are also beneficial.

As pointed out above, it is a great way to do danjun breathing.

Sometimes we use horse stance to both warm up and begin a stretch on our legs.

Sometimes it is used as way recover between more intense aerobic exercises such as kicking.

For example, 100 kicks; 2 minutes horse riding stance; 100 kicks, 2 minutes horse riding stance; (etc).

It is also a way of building mental focus, of mastering the self while the body tries to convince you via pain to move into a more comfortable position.

You can mock it as five wasted minutes. Many people mock what they don't understand.

A couple of weeks ago we spent a total of 25 minutes in a horse stance during one workout in two or three minute increments between other drills.

I don't think a single second of that time was wasted.

 

[granfire]

I apologize for having a sunny disposition

And if you had read the rest of the thread with the same vigilance you apply to your horse stance you would have noticed that I am not unaware of its benefits.

And maybe you would have also noticed that I mentioned somewhere that the class structure of the school I attended did not allow for extended periods of time in such a static position.

 

[sfs982000]

I haven't done much Horse Stance Training since I started Tae Kwon Do, but I did do alot of Horse Stance Training when I studied Shotokan. It was actually a required part of our promotion testing. We finished each promotion test with a set period of time in a horse riding stance (5 minutes for gold belt, 10 for purple, 15 for green, etc.....).

 

[ForeverStudent]

Disappeared ? Well we do it very often. One more disappeared practice we do is sitting on the wall for few minutes. Beautiful :boing1:

 

[bluewaveschool]

I am totally putting the class through a long horse stance training session next week.

 

[granfire]

I am totally putting the class through a long horse stance training session next week.

nothing like some MT inspiration for the next class! ^_^

 

[puunui]

This seems to have largely disappeared from most modern TKD schools. You know what I mean. The old 'settle into a deep horse stance' and hold it for 5-10 minutes. If you can, that is.

Do any of you believe this type of conditioning still has value? For 'traditional' TKD? How about for sport TKD? Has horse stance training disappeared for any other reasons than because it is boring and painful?

My basic stance for sparring is a weight 50-50 angled horse stance, especially in movement on the inside. I remember when I was in high school I was taking a kung fu class, our promotion test included doing a horse stance blind folded with your thighs parallel to the ground and the palms of your hands straight out in front of you touching (like a double spear hand thrust) and they put a rolled up newspaper on our wrists. We had to stay like that for three hours. This was after doing a three hour technical test, which was also blind folded. I remember my friend and I afterwards lying on the grass outside for nine hours, not saying a word, just lying there. The test ended at four in the afternoon, and I don't think we got home until after midnight, even though we both lived a couple of miles up the highway. I don't think I could get away with doing that sort of thing for testing today.

 

[Msby]

Sabumnim has made us practice hand techniques from the horse stance and then starts talking to us for around five minutes without telling us to leave the stance. I still don't know if that's him going on a tangent or if he's doing it intentionally!

 

[ETinCYQX]

*Raises right fist*

I grew up doing that. Thanks to that I have unusually strong calves and thighs.

It took signing up here to figure out how old school my instruction really was.

 

[granfire]

Sabumnim has made us practice hand techniques from the horse stance and then starts talking to us for around five minutes without telling us to leave the stance. I still don't know if that's him going on a tangent or if he's doing it intentionally!

Consider it part of his evil ways!