Honesty the best Policy?

[Gary Crawford]

What if you are wrong and he's not?Now how fair would that be to him or your kids if you take them out of his class? You could have a private discussion with him and ask him,but that's really not a fair position to put him in if he is.You need to know some facts.I understand every parents fear of pedophiles getting hold of their children,but pedophiles are not really gay,they are deviates.Homosexuals,for the most part want the same things as us straight people,long term monogamous relationships.And since they can't have children the same way we do,they often crave a suedo parental relationship and a martial arts instructor is a good thing for them.If he is gay,it's a lot better he satisfy his parental needs that way than the ones who actually get married to a woman so they can have kids of their own and sleep with men on the side.Actually,pedophiles are really hard to recognize.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I'm glad so many folks here have addressed the issue of "homosexual man does not equal pedophile". It's a popular myth which is just not seen - the majority of pedophiles are straight (even if it's a man who molests young boys).

I'll have to find some numbers on this.

 

[Yu Sul Man]

I am glad that there are people who are in the MA who are open minded as the person I was refering to is a very good friend of 12 years. Frankly I dont care what his preference is after all he is my best friend and the god parent of my kids. I took the negative approach to be the devil's advocate. I would like to say what a great group of people are in this foreum. He doesnt teach my kids (thats my job haha) but when he teaches the kids at the dojang I know his heart is only on the best interest of the children.
With warmest regards
John

 

[sma_book]

Hello all thanks for the replies

It is none of my business of their sexual preference but I have the right to know who is involved in my life and my kids life. I think all parents out there would agree.

I mean not to offend anyone but if a martial art instructors private life is none of their students business , then that just opens a whole can of worms. We should be pillars of society.

Regards John

I absolutely have to agree! Why, I still endure emotional distress from my own childhood traumas! Granted, in my situation, these were heterosexual men going after a young girl, but the principle is the same, right?

Considering the potential for abuse, I think that both hetero and homosexuals should be prevented from teaching martial arts, or from being in other positions where they might negatively impact children for that matter.

Oh, wait.... guess that ends up being kind of silly.

<sigh> Better go back to that whole benefit-of-a-doubt/private-life/innocent-before-proven-guilty approach. Dratted Founding Fathers.

Seriously, I do believe people should be honest and truthful. I do believe that people should stand up an live according to their convictions.

But, considering that:
a) homosexuality is still not widely accepted by a majority of the population and still faces quite a bit of discrimination
b) sexual preference and predilections have no place in a martial arts school, place of busines, et al
c) it's hard enough (at least for me) to live a 'normal' day honorably without that extra challenge of being gay
.. I think that the instructor is doing exactly as he should, exactly as he needs to.

And I speak as a parent as well.

- Sheryl

 

[shesulsa]

I am glad that there are people who are in the MA who are open minded as the person I was refering to is a very good friend of 12 years. Frankly I dont care what his preference is after all he is my best friend and the god parent of my kids. I took the negative approach to be the devil's advocate. I would like to say what a great group of people are in this foreum. He doesnt teach my kids (thats my job haha) but when he teaches the kids at the dojang I know his heart is only on the best interest of the children.
With warmest regards
John

Am Ja again? Methinks not. Honesty, huh? Riiiiiight....Sir.

 

[Sarah]

I dont see what the big deal is with being Gay??? It just does not seem to be a big deal here in New Zealand.


I beleive that if you have a real problem with someone, then maybe you need to look within and see why it is such a problem.


(Good to see you were only testing the group!!!)

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I dont see what the big deal is with being Gay??? It just does not seem to be a big deal here in New Zealand.

We're still trying to catch up with the rest of Western culture, Sarah. We had a little bit of a religious backlash at the turn of the 19th-20th centuries. Slowed things down a bit. We're working on it.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Yu Sul Man]

I wasnt testing I was wondering if people felt like I did. Your in New Zealand my Grandmaster lives there Lao SHi Yek Sing Ong (Sing Ong Tai Chi) somewhere in Aukland. Some people might be kinda taken back by a Gay instructor (for one reason or another). Shoot, I brought him into HRD and taught him for many years I could never turn my back on my closest friend that would be soo wrong.

Have a good nite or day in your case
John

 

[Sarah]

Good to hear you are working on it...

Would hope we are past living in caves and smashing each other over the heads??.... ....well maybe just the caves then!

 

[Sarah]

I wasnt testing I was wondering if people felt like I did. Your in New Zealand my Grandmaster lives there Lao SHi Yek Sing Ong (Sing Ong Tai Chi) somewhere in Aukland. Some people might be kinda taken back by a Gay instructor (for one reason or another). Shoot, I brought him into HRD and taught him for many years I could never turn my back on my closest friend that would be soo wrong.

Have a good nite or day in your case
John

I have seen his website looks good, I want to try Tai Chi down the track a bit, I think he has someone in Hamilton so will have to look him up!

 

[Tkang_TKD]

I wasnt testing I was wondering if people felt like I did.

I too am glad to hear that you do not harbor ill will towards anyone being different.

I think you'll find on this message board that just about everyone is level headed and intelligent. If you really want to see some explosive opinions, check out the forum on here called the study. It is politically charged to say the least, but for the most part it seems that everyone there is still respectful, and trys to at least put up an intelligent argument/counter-argument.

 

[Yu Sul Man]

I am happy to be part of such a great group of people and I look forward to long indepth discussions. I think I would like to stay far away from that explosive group , life is too short.

Nite all off to train and then to bed.
John

 

[AaronLucia]

As for my opinion..i believe honesty is always the best policy, although its not always easy to follow.

 

[shesulsa]

As for my opinion..i believe honesty is always the best policy, although its not always easy to follow.

So, are you saying that if you were homosexual, you would be openly gay and would speak frankly to your class about your sexual preference?

 

[loki09789]

I am happy to be part of such a great group of people and I look forward to long indepth discussions. I think I would like to stay far away from that explosive group , life is too short.

Nite all off to train and then to bed.
John

So...you practiced a little misdirection (read lieing) about honesty as an attempt to find out 'honest' reactions about 'honesty being the best policy'...

please excuse the observation of irony, but you sort of directed where the reactions would go with this phrasing and tone.

If I started a thread that was prompted with "So are you for the Registration/labelling and tracking of all Mid East ethnic Americans/Muslims for security purposes" I would get a very obvious reaction.

I don't really, off the top of my head, know a better way to phrase your topic to get a more 'honest' reaction but I think you sort of stacked the deck.

 

[shesulsa]

So...you practiced a little misdirection (read lieing) about honesty as an attempt to find out 'honest' reactions about 'honesty being the best policy'...

please excuse the observation of irony, but you sort of directed where the reactions would go with this phrasing and tone.

In Hwa Rang Do, we call this "Am Ja" - it means trickery.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Paul:

I think you are hitting a little closer to home. YuSulMan stated very clearly that he would NOT want his young son taught by a homosexual (pg 1). That sorta takes this entire line of inquiry out of the category of "objective" and into the realm of "outing". My own personal take on the subject is that I have found Homosexuals, as a group, to be confused, easily rattled, seeking, flexible, intolerant---- in short--- pretty much the same as everybody else. There are individuals with strong traditional values, who are loyal to their partners, and intelligent contributors to their society. I have also met some real "screamers" with all the ethics of a goat in heat and no more social consciousness than a serial criminal. And before we take homosexual MA teachers to task (since we will not be discussing the numbers of professional sports people who are likewise Homosexual), may I say that I am just as careful about purported Heterosexual teachers who can be every bit as sexually violent, manipulative and injurous to their students. Lets not pretend here, Folks. There are pediphiles, sexual predators, frauds, charlatans and personality disorders sharing our MA community with us. If we are going to single out a particular group lets be ready to go all the way, right? FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[loki09789]

In Hwa Rang Do, we call this "Am Ja" - it means trickery.

I think that the only person being 'tricked' is the author because of how he set up the original post so that those who would end up supporting his real opinion would end up commenting the strongest and the most.

I use 'trickery' in my class room and play 'devil's advocate' regularly to get the kids to see things from other perspectives or to guide them to certain observations, for educational purposes of understanding and broadening a fairly ethnocentric developmental stage of life.

In this case, the technique only succeeded in rallying those who would support Yul's true ideology (which I have to say is great IMO). I truly doubt that folks that feel the same as Yul presented in the original post are going to cheer in a forum such as this (partially because they know on some level that they are being bigotous and will get criticized for it).

 

[TomakaStud]

Honesty is the best policy? I don't think this is an issue of honesty, it's not as if someone lied about it. Personally i'd look down upon anyone who felt it was their business to ask about someones sexuality without good cause (can't think of any good cause off the top of my head....but i'm sure one exists).

On another note, my backround incorporates MA, wrestling, and jui jitsu. The only issue i would have would be in perhaps a wrestling and jui jitsu situation, i would find it mentally difficult to separate the two subjects if we were in certain positions that one gets into in the latter of the two arts. Just the way i'm built, perhaps that will change as i get older...only time will tell. I'm sure i'll be judged for my view on this subject by some and get some negativity but i have no shame in my feelings towards it.

Another aspect i believe has been overlooked is the business aspect of the decision to come out to your students. As much as we'd like to believe that everyone is tollerant and understanding that business and pleasure can be separated, we all live in the real world (at least most of us conservatives...politcal shot? yes it was) and we know this is not the case, and such a proclamation could kill an instructors reputation and lively hood, and next thing you know, the rumors are flying!!!

I guess all this babble could be summed up by a "don't ask, don't tell" policy to a persons sexual habits.

The other issue is as we grow in the MA we also grow closer in our personal lives to those we train with, i'd like to quote on the mat fight gear, "train hard, fight hard, party hard!" And that's what we do. We get together, drink, party and have a rip roaring time. Eventually things like this usually come out to the inner circle and at that point it's anybody's guess what will happen.

Does this person only teach Hwarangdo or do they teach grappling? I bleive if they do it would be best just to keep it to themselves. It just might make others, even though acceptable, feel uncomfortable. My 2 cents.

 

[shesulsa]

Yes, Paul, I understand, and I'm not saying this doesn't have its place. Rather, I'm giving the term we use for this method of fishing.

I tend to be leery, however, of this approach and am wondering why it was truly necessary in this format. I realize Yu Sul Man is new to the boards and he very well may be my senior in HRD and I will give him all the respect he is due.

Thanks to all for the opportunity to speak my opinion.