Holes in kenpo

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by teej
I have no doubt that were Mr. Parker still alive, the new interest in grappling would have caused some response. What direction would SGM Parker have taken, we can only guess. He isn't here, he can't do it now, we will never know. So everyone is free to go out and explore grappling and encorporate it how they feel they can.

If Mr. Parker was still alive...

What we do know is that he believed in innovation. Your comments make sense to me.

- Ceicei

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by teej
Different arts appeal to different people to deal with whatever you feel you might encounter. Grappling has received a lot of popularity and for good reason. The popularity has done a lot of good things and caused renewed training in this area.

Is any art complete? Hardly. So some arts or instructors are bringing other instructors to teach grappling. So what. Mr. Parker often trained with instructors of different styles. If you want to grapple, go grapple. Nothing wrong with that.

I see that some of you replying to this are not Kenpo practitioners. So in case you do not know, SGM Ed Parkers background was in boxing and judo before he started studying kenpo. Ed Parker realized at an early age that grappling in an attack with mutiple opponents would be fatal. (grappling does have its place, I am not knocking that) Kenpo is an art designed to deal with and get you out of a situation when encountering multiple opponents. Yes, it deals with one opponent also.

Don't put kenpo down because it does not teach indepth grappling. In Mr. Parkers early years, he knew grappling against multiple opponents was suicide, so he started studying kenpo. Later on after much training, and experimenting, he formed American Kenpo.

I have no doubt that were Mr. Parker still alive, the new interest in grappling would have caused some response. What direction would SGM Parker have taken, we can only guess. He isn't here, he can't do it now, we will never know. So everyone is free to go out and explore grappling and encorporate it how they feel they can.

If you are a Kenpo practioner and want to search out instruction on how to do this or guidance to do it, there is a Kenpo instructor named Martin Wheeler. He has been incorporating grappling into Kenpo for several years now. He is a fantastic martial artist and instructor, and he travels giving seminars on the subject. I think his web site is www.ironmonkeyma.com , if that is not correct, I will post a correction later. He also has a very, very good tape series you can get info from his site on.

So, yes there are instructors out there exploring grappling more. There is nothing wrong with you doing it either. But is kenpo incomplete? No, I don't think so. That is not what is was formed for. American Kenpo is primarily and stand up art, the bases behind its formulation being able to deal with multiple opponents. In that subject area, it is very complete.

Yours in Kenpo,
Teej
That is the correct web site for Martin Wheeler. If you go there, click on his tapes and click the free download demo. On my slow computer, it took 5 minutes, but it show clips through all his tapes, the last ones are clips from his tapes on locks and grappling & kenpo. fyi

Again, I dont think that anyone is saying that you need to stop Kenpo and start to grapple. IMO, it is important to have some basic knowledge of it. Will you fight an expert grappler on the street? Maybe/maybe not. It doesnt have to be BJJ either. A wrestler can be just as devastating. Just having some basic moves that you can add to what you're already doing is perfectly fine, though some people will disagree.

As for the mult. attackers. I think that the most important thing to do is to make sure that you are in control.. If you can grab one of the guys, put him between you and the others, and all the while, make sure that you're pounding him, will be a huge advantage for you. I have seen a Kenpo tape of mult. attackers, and IMO, I was not impressed. How can you pre-set how the attackers will be attacking?? You cant! Rather than 1 at a time, it will be more like 3 or 4 at a time. Standing in the center, while they attack you 1 at a time---that is a fantasy!

Mike

 

[MisterMike]

I think it behooves the martial artist to study or become acclimated to different styles of fighting. To only learn one art will only limit yourself. It's like going to a candy store and only buying tootsie rolls.

Oh, as a side note, if you attend a school that is against you visiting another school, or cross-training, I would seriously question their policies.

There's just too many good flavors out there. We'll never have time to taste them all, but you'll eventually find the one you like best.

 

[pete]

There's just too many good flavors out there. We'll never have time to taste them all, but you'll eventually find the one you like best. - mr mike.

you said it. nobody ever told me i had to paint all the rooms in my house the same color.

wait what's that... the sound of my biological clock ticking or a time bomb?

:bomb:

 

[kenpo12]

Most of the people who say they will just use kenpo moves on the ground have never had a skilled grappler take them down. Also, when I say skilled grappler it doesn't mean someone who has done BJJ for 10 years, just have someone who has wrestled in high school for about year take you down and see if you can get back to your feet. I know it will be harder than you think if you've never done it.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by kenpo12
Most of the people who say they will just use kenpo moves on the ground have never had a skilled grappler take them down. Also, when I say skilled grappler it doesn't mean someone who has done BJJ for 10 years, just have someone who has wrestled in high school for about year take you down and see if you can get back to your feet. I know it will be harder than you think if you've never done it.

Very true!

Mike

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I have to say that after nearly a year of ranting about cross-training and grappling on this and other forums, someone has finally shown me a link to a Kenpo site with some really good stuff!

I was very impressed by the video preview showing Kenpo, Judo, FMA, and maybe some Systema techniques well integrated.

Bravo! This is what I've been looking for...too bad they are in Kentucky and I am in California...

 

[teej]

I understand Knepo12's point and in that you are correct. But remember that Kenpo is not about techniques. Kenpo is the study of body mechanics and motion. The principles of Kenpo can be used on the ground, but you have to train on the ground. There is no substitue for actual ground training. (and you can't beat the workout you get grappling)

But if you are looking at Kenpo's stand up techniques and are trying to visions someone doing it while on their back, well ya, it won't work.

The techniques learned studying Kenpo are purley tools to teach Kenpo. Kenpo is the study of body mechanics and principles. Some princilpes are universal and apply to stand up fighting and ground fighting. You still have to work, practice on the ground to find out, there is no substitute! But if you are looking at Kenpo as purley techniques, you are incorrect. It is not about techniques. The kenpo moves on the ground are principles and body mechanics. But you are correct, if someone does not practice on the ground and a novice grappler takes them down, they will have a difficult time getting back up.

Yours in Kenpo,
Teej