Sounds similar to other Abrahamic religions for most of their history.
Power is always the issue, but they are using religion as the tool to maintain it. Without that tool, it would be a lot harder to maintain that level of control.
His job was to rape young girls before their execution
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
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Sounds similar to other Abrahamic religions for most of their history.
Power is always the issue, but they are using religion as the tool to maintain it. Without that tool, it would be a lot harder to maintain that level of control.
KELLYG
2nd Black Belt
I agree with you Mcaver. But what complicates this all the more is that our people in power want what there people in power have ie. Oil. Us wanting to interfere in there natural progression of there country is not us wanting to help bring about positive change in the lives of women but us trying to obtain power over the Oil that grants us more power in the long run. Remember By Whatever Means Necessary. I by no means am suggesting that treating women as despicable as they do in Iran or other countries is O.K. But if our main goal is there oil the just come out and say so. Then we can discuss that. I don't like being manipulated like we were in Iraq and their weapons of mass destruction.
Russian Orthodox, similiar style but different.
My concern is that by blaming 'religion' we excuse the people committing the atrocities by saying it's religion that's doing it. Frankly the people who could do this, will, regardless of what they say they believe in. If you can torture someone there is something fundamentally wrong with you that you can hurt another human being regardless of whether you have a religion or not.
Archangel M
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I agree Tez...religion is a justification for the behavior.
Well that's the whole kicker isn't it? We were manipulated into that war and we were manipulated into Vietnam and WWII AND WWI. The Gulf Of Tonkin Incident was probably a staged incident, we didn't want to get into WWII but knowledge of an impending attack and refusal to honestly negotiate with the Japanese threw us into that one, granted Germany probably would've started something with us and was trying to provoke us by having hunter-subs prowling our Atlantic coastline but by and large the PEOPLE didn't want to get into it, inspite of being in the last years of a depression. Yet we did. As with the sinking of the Lusitania (where just enough Americans were killed to anger us), prior to our entry into the so called "War to End All Wars"
If the powers that be want another war and one with Iran then they'll do something (behind the curtains) to provoke Iran (via sanctions or whatever) to attack us and bing bang boom there we are. Notice how we're not really getting all uptight about North Korea and their so called nuclear program... lots of sword rattling to be sure but no real (present) demonization of the N. Koreans because (again) they got nothing valuable to offer to us... *ahem* to the powers that be.
Way off topic I think... probably deserves a thread of it's own anyway...
How others act by their religion I think personally is none of our damned business. If we want to protest something then let it be the violation of basic human rights of which we all share equally as residents of this planet.
Sex with children in Thailand is very illegal! the age of consent is 15 but for sex workers it's 18! Some authorities may look the other way but peadophiles especially foreign ones are routinely caught and prosecuted.
http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000008275
Interpol work to catch as many sex tourists as they can and believe it or not they work with the Thai authorities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/38183.stm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JH23Ae01.html
Ah, well then, I stand corrected :asian: ... when I had this information, admittedly it was about 10+ years ago... not realizing that times do indeed change. But still at 15! sheesh one imagines that there is a black market or an organized crime handling that group that still specifies the under 18 kids.
CoryKS
Senior Master
The effect of weapons on the ability to wage war does not make them the object of blame for their use. Religion does not give motivation. People give motivation, and religion is one of the tools they use to do that.
Communism is to economic systems what creationism is to science. It does not work, it cannot work, and had been proven not to work. Therefore, communism is a religion because those who accept it do so based on nothing but blind faith that it will work.
David43515
Master Black Belt
Nothing in my life has ever brought more joy to me than religion. Every good choice I have ever made has been influenced by the teachings of my religion. Every wonderful thing I have in my life (my wife, my children, close friends I wouldn`t have met any other way,my job as a teacher, and more things than I could ever count) came to me through following my religion.
I can`t help but be sad that so many of you have a bad image of religion, or have had bad experiances through it. Bad or misguided people use God to try and justify the evil they do in the worl. I can`t deny that. But they use science, patriotism, intelecualism and rhetoric as well. For them, religion is just another tool in the box. It`s shameful. But please don`t confuse the messenger with the message.
"Pure religion and undefiled before God is this, To visit the fatherless and the widows in thier affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27
I`m not trying to convert or convince anyone. But don`t forget that religion has also had amazing influence on man to do good, to rise above the common and the petty, and to learn to embrace what is noble in him.
I can`t help but be sad that so many of you have a bad image of religion, or have had bad experiances through it. Bad or misguided people use God to try and justify the evil they do in the worl. I can`t deny that. But they use science, patriotism, intelecualism and rhetoric as well. For them, religion is just another tool in the box. It`s shameful. But please don`t confuse the messenger with the message.
"Pure religion and undefiled before God is this, To visit the fatherless and the widows in thier affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27
I`m not trying to convert or convince anyone. But don`t forget that religion has also had amazing influence on man to do good, to rise above the common and the petty, and to learn to embrace what is noble in him.
Nice post.
Religion has a very bad history. It was and is used to keep the masses down, help the rich get richer, murder, rape and as justification for more wars then I can count.
Its true that sometimes religion has been an amazing influence on man to do good, but then again you dont need religion to do good works. Anybody can do good works. I know plenty of atheists who volunteer and give back to their communities.
It would be sad to think that religious people are good, or do good things because a god is watching, and they will be rewarded in another life. Everybody should be doing good works because it helps our communities.
If religion works for you great, Im happy for you. Thank you for not trying to convert anyone. Its most annoying when folks try.
CoryKS
Senior Master
To be fair, that whole "let's abolish slavery" thing started with a couple of guys in England who decided to shove their religion down everybody's throat. Just a thought.
Isn't that sort of like saying Meth isn't bad, pimps are bad for getting prostitutes addicted and dependent?
So pure communism is sort of like pure capitalism then?
15 is an average age around the world, it's 16 in the UK.
Ken, it is annoying and downright insulting sometimes when people try to convert you! I seem to attract people who want me to be 'saved' lol. Does my head in!
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
No "thing", ideology or otherwise, is wholely good or evil. At the root is people and how they use it. It just so happens that more people have seemingly used religion to advance their own agendas instead of focusing on advancing the teachings of that relgion that relate to the betterment of mankind.
For example: The period known as the Christian Reformation saw more bloodshed than any other period in man's history. The only event that compares is WWII and that's only because we dropped two nukes on Japan.
Relgious organizations do good works, especially at the community level. They have a positive impact on thousands of lives. Behind the good and the bad are the people running the show and their intentions but the thing about religion, and this could be said of political parties as well, is that they appeal to one's core values, a need to "belong", and so forth...to the point where "faith" overrides "rational thought." Call it brain washing, call it voo-doo...whatever... but there's something dangerous about large numbers of people devoid of logic blindly following fanatical rhetoric.
For example: The period known as the Christian Reformation saw more bloodshed than any other period in man's history. The only event that compares is WWII and that's only because we dropped two nukes on Japan.
Relgious organizations do good works, especially at the community level. They have a positive impact on thousands of lives. Behind the good and the bad are the people running the show and their intentions but the thing about religion, and this could be said of political parties as well, is that they appeal to one's core values, a need to "belong", and so forth...to the point where "faith" overrides "rational thought." Call it brain washing, call it voo-doo...whatever... but there's something dangerous about large numbers of people devoid of logic blindly following fanatical rhetoric.
I've never said some good things haven't come religion or religious people.
But you don't need to be religious to do good things. Nor do you need to be religious to commit some terrible acts.
Bruno@MT
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Who is this 'They' you want to nuke?
The minority in power? The near majority who wanted a more progressive president? or the joe in the street who has no measurable influence on daily life?
And taking a stand? How? Iran is a sovereign country and short of invading it, what are you going to do?
Yes, if this is true, it is a disgrace, but that does not mean that we (the west) should just nuke entire countries because of it.
EDIT: just in case anyone should think I condone this sort of thing: I don't.
However, someone being casual about killing a million people (of which only a handful are the actual targets) with a thermonuclear weapon is not a solution.
CoryKS
Senior Master
By Jove, I think he's got it! The thing about your example is, we need to be clear on what we mean by "bad". Meth can be said to be bad as in "bad for you", but not bad in the moral sense because it is doesn't actually do anything but sit there. If meth chased you down a dark alley and injected itself into your bloodstream, then it would be bad. And yes, pimps are bad.
I dunno, I'd have to know what your criteria for failure were. Capitalism allows for individual success or failure, so if one were to claim that capitalism were a failure because there are a minority of people for whom it doesn't work, I'd have to disagree. It's not like communism where everybody rises or falls together.
CoryKS
Senior Master
I know you didn't. In fact, you gave a passing nod to some of the good things it has done after you listed the many horrors that, to your mind, it should be blamed for.
And no, you don't need to be religious to do good or bad things. The abolition example wasn't intended to show that religion is necessarily good. The point was that the leaders of the movement drew their inspiration from the doctrine of their religion (unintended consequence, perhaps), and managed to gain traction because they presented their argument in religious terms to those who shared their beliefs. In effect, they used religion as a tool to lead large numbers of people to their desired goal. That ability is a feature rather than a bug, IMO. If some people use it for bad purposes, then those particular instances should be addressed rather than assaulting the concept of religion itself.
If it's good for you, that's great!
Well, I'm not sure it's just another tool...how many wars have really been fought in the name of science? Religion seems to access a particularly fervent aspect of the brain. Scientists don't try to convert people to scientivism the way the religious try to convert people.
For certain individual men, perhaps. On the group level, I see mostly the bad, excepting possibly the Buddhists.
Yes, thanks!
Of course, looking at the central role played by religion in justifying the enslavement of non-Christian races in the first place...this isn't quite as impressive as it seems at first.
Yeah, same problem on this side of the ocean. They feel like there is something wrong with you and if you would just believe in the invisable man in the sky, you'd be ok. Its for your own good after all.
