Hi

[Mon Mon]

Hi i am a newbie here and am looking forward to hear some of your comments :soapbox:

 

[arnisador]

How long have you been studying Ninjutsu?

 

[Mon Mon]

to say i study ninjutsu i feel is inacurate i study Budo Taijutsu But i have been doing it for about two years.

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by Mon Mon
to say i study ninjutsu i feel is inacurate i study Budo Taijutsu But i have been doing it for about two years.

I'm not familar with ninjitsu or Budo Taijutsu. Could you elaborate on why you prefer to refer to what you do that way?

 

[Mon Mon]

I refer to this art as Budo Taijutsu and Not ninjutsu because the Grandmaster renamed the art to Budo tajutsu from its origional name from Ninpo Taijutsu that Takamatsu called it. Also i feel to call it ninjutsu as the grandmaster has made a point i think it gives people the wrong impression for its practicioners and the art . It is also made up of 9 different schools which many of you know 6 of them are samurai and 3 are ninja that is why the Grandmaster renamed it to Budo Taijutsu, and that is why i also call it Budo Taijutsu. Its a great art.

 

[heretic888]

actually, there are a lot more than three "ninja schools" in Budo Taijutsu even they are not 'ninjutsu' per se.....

 

[Mon Mon]

Please make this clear for me i know for a fact that there are only 3 schools called ninjutsu or ninpo in the Bujinkan Do you mean Fighting Arts that they used? such as Gyyko Ryu ect... because those were samurai arts not ninja schools

 

[arnisador]

This has been discussed in this forum before; you might be able to find the discussions using the Search facility. Of course, you might not agree with them!

 

[heretic888]

Please make this clear for me i know for a fact that there are only 3 schools called ninjutsu or ninpo in the Bujinkan Do you mean Fighting Arts that they used? such as Gyyko Ryu ect... because those were samurai arts not ninja schools

Okay, I shall post the conclusions I have come to talking with various people extensively about the topic over the past couple of weeks.

To the best of my knowledge, there are FOUR ryuha within the Bujinkan that contain ninjutsu/shinobijutsu teachings: Togakure-ryu, Kumogakure-ryu, Gyokushin-ryu, and Kukishin-ryu. Kukishin-ryu is NOT officially considered a ninjutsu ryuha, however, because it does not emphasize or stress the arts of stealth (whereas the other three do). Its emphasis is on happo bikenjutsu.

To the best of my knowledge, there are SIX ryuha within the Bujinkan that are underlined by Ninpo/Shinobu-Ho (the life philosophy or Way of the ninja): Togakure-ryu, Kumogakure-ryu, Gyokushin-ryu, Kukishin-ryu, Gyokko-ryu, and Koto-ryu.

To the best of my knowledge, there are TWO ryuha within the Bujinkan that contain neither ninjutsu teachings nor are underlined by Ninpo thought per se, but are very sympathetic to Ninpo and are 'Ninpo-like' in nature: Gikan-ryu and Shinden Fudo-ryu.

To the best of my knowledge, there are EIGHT ryuha which are historically and culturally associated with the ninja/Iga-bushi (meaning they were formed as part of the Iga-ryu ninjutsu collective): Togakure-ryu, Gyokushin-ryu, Kumogakure-ryu, Kukishin-ryu, Shinden Fudo-ryu, Gyokko-ryu, Koto-ryu, and Gikan-ryu.

To the best of my knowledge, there is ONE ryuha which is strictly what you might call a 'samurai tradition' (with minimal or no 'ninja' influence) within the Bujinkan: Takagi Yoshin-ryu.

On a side note, the Shinden Fudo-ryu tradition I am referring to is Shinden Fudo-ryu dakentaijutsu (of which Masaaki Hatsumi is soke) and not Shinden Fudo-ryu taijutsu. Shinden Fudo-ryu dakentaijutsu is the only one of the two to my knowledge which contains the 'ninja content'. The Kukishin-ryu tradition I am referring to is Kuki Shinden or Kukishin-ryu happo bikenjutsu, and not one of the other Kuki ryuha. Kukishin-ryu happo bikenjutsu is the only Kuki school to my knowledge which contains the 'ninja content'.

I do not think it is fair to call any of the Bujinkan ryuha 'samurai schools' in that they are, on the whole, diametrically opposed to bushido (but not budo) thinking (with the possible exception of Takagi Yoshin-ryu).

 

[Jason Chambers]

In the Bujinkan, I believe the general concession is THREE schools. Togakure, Kumogakure & Gyokushin.

 

[heretic888]

Perhaps I should reiterate.

There are THREE schools within the Bujinkan that EMPHASIZE or STRESS ninjutsu/shinobijutsu. Kukishin-ryu also contains ninjutsu teachings, but does NOT stress it. It focuses on happo bikenjutsu instead. Koto-ryu emphasizes koppojutsu, but also teaches kenjutsu and shurikenjutsu. Its the same thing with Kukishin-ryu and its ninjutsu.

There are at least SIX schools in the Bujinkan that are underlined by Ninpo/Shinobu-Ho. Now, Ninpo is a life philosophy and a way of thinking and approaching situations. It is not a martial art per se. These six ryuha are: Togakure-ryu, Gyokushin-ryu, Kumogakure-ryu, Gyokko-ryu, Kukishin-ryu, and Koto-ryu.

Eight of the schools in the Bujinkan are historically and culturally associated with the Iga ninja. This means they were founded as part of the collective known as Iga-ryu ninjutsu (whose first recognized jonin was Gamon Doshi). The only school that was not part of this ninjutsu collective is Takagi Yoshin-ryu.

There are only three 'ninjutsu ryuha' in the very STRICTEST sense of the words (meaning they emphasize it). But to think those are the only ninja schools OR the only schools with Ninpo OR even the only schools that contain ninjutsu seems mistaken to me.

 

[Jay Bell]

semantics, semantics...in the end, does it really matter?

Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu were used by Ninja families. Togakure ryu, Gyokushin ryu and Kumogakure ryu are Ninjutsu traditions.

It is incorrect to say that Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu were "samurai traditions".

 

[heretic888]

semantics, semantics...in the end, does it really matter?

No, not really. Calling it 'ninja' or 'samurai' doesn't really affect your budo in any way. But, the history is still an interesting topic to discuss.

Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu were used by Ninja families. Togakure ryu, Gyokushin ryu and Kumogakure ryu are Ninjutsu traditions.

Yup.