What drawers your perspective of TKD is it first hand experience or from second hand gossup. How do you non believer drawer your conclussions about TKD.
Terry
Terry
Here's a question for you Non TKD'ers
- Thread starter terryl965
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OP
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Here you go Loki, if you are one of those that believe TKD is worthless what brought you to that cocclusion did you at one time belong to a TKD school or did you watch some classess from a sideline or did you hear about how bad it was from second hand gossup/Loki said:
Terry
This sounds all confrontational-y; like you wanna bait someone into admiting they think TKD is worthless.terryl965 said:
Speaking for myself, I was in TKD for a little less than a year. I liked it a lot and I found it beneficial to me physically and mentally; however, it was quite expensive. Very yes! I felt that belt testing was arbitrarily timed, regardless of the students preparedness. Also, Master's attention differed noticably between students with contracts vs. those without. I think, nonetheless, it's a powerful MA.
Brother John
Senior Master
Studied it for several years under two very good/capable/well informed instructors. (better part of a decade)terryl965 said:
Your Brother
John
Brother John
Senior Master
wow....
ok
After reading your clarified question: I don't think TKD is "Worthless".
That's far too strong a descriptor for it.
Your Brother
John
ok
After reading your clarified question: I don't think TKD is "Worthless".
That's far too strong a descriptor for it.
Your Brother
John
bushi jon
Green Belt
TKD is not worthless it is what the practioner does with it that makes it worth or not.
no one dares to say TKD is worthless.
but i think the way sparring matches go kind of reduce the beauty of TKD for me at least.
I would like to think this is the fault of the fighters not the art, but I would also like to see other fighters defending the art by providing legacy shows and performances of the art.
again, I have seen lots of TKD performances where they do things just as good as shaolin monks do them but unfortunately this is not the common most-general image of TKD. i.e. get rid of olympics in TKD and it will look a lot better to people.
last thing i wanna say, if you believe in your art you should not care what people think. i think this is part of the challenge for you.
but i think the way sparring matches go kind of reduce the beauty of TKD for me at least.
I would like to think this is the fault of the fighters not the art, but I would also like to see other fighters defending the art by providing legacy shows and performances of the art.
again, I have seen lots of TKD performances where they do things just as good as shaolin monks do them but unfortunately this is not the common most-general image of TKD. i.e. get rid of olympics in TKD and it will look a lot better to people.
last thing i wanna say, if you believe in your art you should not care what people think. i think this is part of the challenge for you.
Eternal Beginner
Brown Belt
In answer to your question, I used to doubt TKD. I inherited my bias from an instructor I had who mocked many different arts actually. Now, I train in a much more accepting atmosphere and actually have a couple of TKD guys who cross train with us and I have a whole new world of respect for them.
So I guess I got my bias from being stupid and got rid of it by getting educated.
So I guess I got my bias from being stupid and got rid of it by getting educated.
Brother John
Senior Master
I think that originally there were a few, traditional, TKD styles with some real substance. .....and even fewer "masters". Then the bulk of TKD'ists came to the USA & Canada, and the "Air-plane disease" happend to their belts. The belts were plain black when they borded and had more stripes than a thermometer when they got off. So they opened schools and didn't have hardly anything of substance when they opened their dojang.... so they made up for the lack of material with two things:
Hard work (if you're lucky)
and sparring (and plenty of it).
((or for those who devolved into McDojangs...80% sparring preceded by a kicking class))
Because there was little substance and much ego.... the thermometer belts didn't require airplanes anymore, just the passage of time. Now you have schools that have a chart on the wall with a belt progression and a corresponding "number of months per belt" reference next to it.
Later things get worse: Enter the TKD associations!!! Nothing adds confusion to chaos like political infighting!
Recognizing the shallow depth of material...even in Hard Working and well disciplined schools (not their fault, their instructors didn't have it to give them often times) these associations filled lots of gaps with "new" forms that they then sold to schools/instructors....etc. Now schools who's history has little to do with one another (direct lineage) are all doing the same forms. This filling of the shallow material gap is good in that now the student has more material to study from, but it also serves to "commonalize" the styles... making a person from one system look and move a LOT like a person from a different system. (((((if you ever get the opportunity to train with a TKD instructor from a TRADITIONAL TKD system, that hasn't been pulled into the political-MA-association stuff...DO SO!! You'll find that their style has a distinctive flavor all it's own!!!! It'll blow ya away if you're not use to that and only know the cookie-cutter TKD)))))
These problems aren't totally PERVASIVE, but they are sadly very very common. Enough so to soil the reputation of a good catagory of martial arts.
My hats off to those good instructors in TKD out there!!!
....and to those others....
you don't know what you are missing.
Your Brother
John
Hard work (if you're lucky)
and sparring (and plenty of it).
((or for those who devolved into McDojangs...80% sparring preceded by a kicking class))
Because there was little substance and much ego.... the thermometer belts didn't require airplanes anymore, just the passage of time. Now you have schools that have a chart on the wall with a belt progression and a corresponding "number of months per belt" reference next to it.
Later things get worse: Enter the TKD associations!!! Nothing adds confusion to chaos like political infighting!
Recognizing the shallow depth of material...even in Hard Working and well disciplined schools (not their fault, their instructors didn't have it to give them often times) these associations filled lots of gaps with "new" forms that they then sold to schools/instructors....etc. Now schools who's history has little to do with one another (direct lineage) are all doing the same forms. This filling of the shallow material gap is good in that now the student has more material to study from, but it also serves to "commonalize" the styles... making a person from one system look and move a LOT like a person from a different system. (((((if you ever get the opportunity to train with a TKD instructor from a TRADITIONAL TKD system, that hasn't been pulled into the political-MA-association stuff...DO SO!! You'll find that their style has a distinctive flavor all it's own!!!! It'll blow ya away if you're not use to that and only know the cookie-cutter TKD)))))
These problems aren't totally PERVASIVE, but they are sadly very very common. Enough so to soil the reputation of a good catagory of martial arts.
My hats off to those good instructors in TKD out there!!!
....and to those others....
you don't know what you are missing.
Your Brother
John
terryl965 said:
For me I don't believe it is me being a non believer of TKD, people can say what they want, it is up to me to draw any conclusion. The only TKD I have really been exposed to is the Olympic style, so no first hand experience there. Since joining this forum I have learned from experienced pratitioners that there is so much more to it.
Not at all. Anyone who knows Terry would tell you he's anything but. He's looking for genuine, down to earth responses.OnlyAnEgg said:
Like that!OnlyAnEgg said:
Personally, I love TKD but am all to aware that it has a poor rep with some outsiders. Only difference is, I don't really care what other people think, though I DO care why they think it. I haven't noticed any problems exclusive to TKD. It's just such a massive, widely practiced art, that we are higher on the radar than most. Such as your statement above. This isn't an art exclusive problem, but I agree you don't have to look too far to find a school like that.
I think one HUGE problem is under-qualified people teaching the art. A student gets their black belt and opens a school. Sure there are some that are the exception and not the rule, but by and large, it's a huge mistake and does our art a great disservice. I know there are some that will disagree with me, it is their preogative to do so, but I don't feel anyone with only a few years in the art is truly qualified to represent it. Sorry. No way. TKD, as many other arts takes years to learn and understand everything it has to offer. That's why we have masters. It isn't slavery. They are not masters of us. They are a master of the art. I'm an instructor. There's a huge difference between an instructor and a master. Having so many under-qualified, relatively inexperienced people portray our art in its entire scope is detremental to the art. It is a major contributor to the watered down versions we see today. Because it's all they learned therefore, its all they are able to teach.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #13
Only an egg I have no intention on baiting anybody into anything the last thing I want is a confitation here on MT just good old fashion decussion about. Sorry about the expense we do not charge high fee's and we only use these belt white yellow orange green blue red half red half black and BB, I do not believe in stripe belts that is a money maker for he school. Also I have no set time frame on a student to test they test when I say so, no contract I donnot believe in them either and my students are welcome to came to class six days a week for as many classes they can handle a day.OnlyAnEgg said:
Terry
I humbly apologize for my presumption. I realized, as I've watched the thread, that baiting was the last thing that happened.
Please forgive my brashness on that matter.
Your school sounds like one I would have been proud to be a part of. I thouroughly enjoyed my TKD experience; but, as I said, very much money. Many striped belts. Honestly, for myself and 2 kids, I paid about $195/month. Belt tests were $40-$60 per person every 3 months. It was ungodly.
Currently, I pay $40/month for a family. $45/year per for AKJU dues. Belt tests included.
I respect TKD. It's wonderfully brutal at times. It's a powerful art.
Please forgive my brashness on that matter.
Your school sounds like one I would have been proud to be a part of. I thouroughly enjoyed my TKD experience; but, as I said, very much money. Many striped belts. Honestly, for myself and 2 kids, I paid about $195/month. Belt tests were $40-$60 per person every 3 months. It was ungodly.
Currently, I pay $40/month for a family. $45/year per for AKJU dues. Belt tests included.
I respect TKD. It's wonderfully brutal at times. It's a powerful art.
The Kai
Master of Arts
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Not a fan of TKD, in one time the last thing you ever wanted to do was to take a TKD side thrust kick, it would definatly crush what ever was in it's path. Nowadays most TKD schools cannot even kick with a degree of power!
oldnewbie
Purple Belt
My initial impression came from second hand information.
TKD was weak, and just sport. No meat.
Then two things happened.
First, I came here, and learned a great deal about the art.
Second, my Shotokan instructor, introduced us to two 18 year old girls, TKD Black Belt, to help with the class.
I got my butt kicked royally.
I know better now. I also know that there is a big difference between "traditional" and "sport. Each has its place.
TKD was weak, and just sport. No meat.
Then two things happened.
First, I came here, and learned a great deal about the art.
Second, my Shotokan instructor, introduced us to two 18 year old girls, TKD Black Belt, to help with the class.
I got my butt kicked royally.
I know better now. I also know that there is a big difference between "traditional" and "sport. Each has its place.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #17
No apology needed Your input is welcome and refreshing. I'm glad you ahve found a home in the Art. Good luck on your training.OnlyAnEgg said:
Terry
OP
- Thread Starter
- #18
Kai you are right about the side thrust kick, there are still some older instructors that teach that still and it still can do damage, when properly thrown.The Kai said:
Terry
The Kai
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It seems there as been a de-evolution with all the kicks-from the side to the crsppy round kick (olympic style), front etc...terryl965 said:
round here most of the TKD schools have gome Mc Dojo, it is hard to find a old school TKD'ist here
