Helping Students Deal With Bullying

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

either that or actually teach him functional self-defense.

What do you mean by this?

Theres nothing that suggests what the kid has learnt is not legitimate self defense? As a couple of us have said, if he tries it out in a ring fight he can confirm his own ability, but I would assume the moves themselves have a legitimate self defense purpose.

 

[Tez3]

I hope you will stop talking about developing confidence by the time I get to the last page of this discussion

The obvious problem with coming late into a thread is that you have read the OP and jumped straight to your reply without reading any other posts. Perhaps you should look up 'over confidence'.

The problem is that this child doesn't have any fighting ability.

No that's not the problem at all, re-read the OP. The child has been let down by a previous martial arts instructor. The bullying issue is a side one which complicates the issue but isn't the issue.

If you truly want to give someone confidence then you must first give them the skills and then train their ability.

As I said you haven't read any other posts and have come in thinking you have the answer, coming in with quite a belligerent attitude too.

 

[Tez3]

Sadly, it will take a while of my support to undo the damage done by the previous instructor. I am thinking of asking the dad if there were any incidents when Johnny came home taking about comments the instructor made to him, so I can know better the damage I'm dealing with.

From everything you've said I think you have a good handle the issue and on your class. The lad is lucky to train under you! undoing damage done by another instructor who perhaps thought 'manning up' was the way to go with a bullied boy, takes time and patience but it sounds as if you are ahead of the game here. The ultimate aim could be to get the lad competing but throwing in the deep end doesn't help at the moment.

I think some can't see beyond the child having been bullied but your problem, which you seem to understand very well, is actually undoing what the previous martial arts instructor has done. The confidence the child may have had has been knocked out of him, however I'm sure that you are on the right track to putting right what faulty martial arts did to him.

The arguments about whether bullied children should strike back or not aren't applicable here, the issue is that a child has been incorrectly taught by a martial arts instructor and now needs to be taught correctly. This is a martial arts problem not a bullying one. it's one we should all be concerned about.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But that kind of goes back to my point about regional attitudes. In some areas , some parents would be appalled at that idea. Now let's assume the dojo has a good working relationship with the local educational system. When they find out you are advocating violence, ,,well that business partnership will be over.

That sounds horrible to read. The child is in violence even if he trains for it or not. There's a difference between using violence as a last resort and going out to start fights. I'm not disagreeing with you because I know there are people out there that are like that.

I guess I'm just too simple. "The lion doesn't care if you are for or against violence. It just sees you as prey." This is how I see bullying. Bullies won't stop until they realize that you are more than what they want to deal with.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Frankly there's not much you can do against a gang you try and fight them you'll get your *** kicked badly. Best thing is to avoid or run away

With kids that's really not necessarily true. Often a "gang" of kids has one person who is the real bully, and others who back them up (give them the confidence of numbers). I was bullied a pretty good amount growing up, and it almost always involved groups of kids (at least 2, up to I think 5 or 6 in the largest group). In each case, when they got physical and I fought back, it all ended as soon as I had the upper hand with the one leading them. I'm not saying there's never going to be another kid stepping in, but I never experienced it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is just my personal opinion.
There is nothing you can do. So stop thinking that you can. Self confidence is one of those BS marketing things that is used to get parents to think martial arts will be good for their kids and fork out their money every month. I have been around a long time and not once have I ever met an instructor who had the faintest clue on how to deliver on that promise.
The best you can do is make his classes fun so it becomes a santuary for him and his life to be a little less hellish.

There's solid psychological research on self confidence, including approaches that help build it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Johnny needs a ring fight.

Given his reaction to sparring, probably not just yet, DB.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

He has to do something important. Prove to himself he can.

True, but only if he actually does. If he doesn't (which seems the most likely outcome for a ring fight from someone who is afraid of sparring), then it makes things worse. Helping him find something that feels important (to him, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of it) he can do well is important.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Then he has suffered the worst of it and not died. Even that is a confidence boost.

Usually not so much for people with low self confidence. They tend to compound failures in their own mind, rather than recognizing survival.

 

[Tez3]

Given his reaction to sparring, probably not just yet, DB.

That problem is the fault of the previous instructor. The current instructor, the OP I think will do a good job of rectifying the problems. Once that is sorted so a lot of other things will fall into place for the child.

When people are suggesting 'fights' it might be as well to remember the age of the child, eleven as well as the sad background he has.

 

[Danny T]

It's all about fighting back. Sometimes it's a mental fight and sometimes it's a physical fight. Coping with it means you are willing to take the bullying. The goal is to stop the bullying and that requires that the child fights back either mentally or physically. The child will either have to take charge with his words or take charge with his fists.

The problem is that this child doesn't have any fighting ability. Look at it like this. How much confidence would you have in playing the piano in front of an audience when you know you don't have any ability to play the piano

How much confidence would you have to swim in the ocean if you didn't have any ability to swim? You can have all of the confidence you want but without the skill and ability you will sink.

If you truly want to give someone confidence then you must first give them the skills and then train their ability.

Did you read everything I wrote there or just the first line?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What do you mean by this?

Theres nothing that suggests what the kid has learnt is not legitimate self defense? As a couple of us have said, if he tries it out in a ring fight he can confirm his own ability, but I would assume the moves themselves have a legitimate self defense purpose.

The child may have learned the techniques of self-defense but lacks the ability to apply them. There is difference between knowing how to punch and kick correctly vs having the ability to do so to someone who wants to hit you back. This is even more so the case with Martial Arts that don't require you to actually use the technique against a partner like BJJ and other grappling arts use. What I'm reading is that they child may have the skills for physical self-defense but lacks the ability to apply it.

We all understand that self-defense consists of a non-violent component and a violent component. When a person has the ability to do both then they will naturally get confidence in their ability to defend themselves.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As I said you haven't read any other posts and have come in thinking you have the answer, coming in with quite a belligerent attitude too.

I finally caught up with the posts

 

[Tez3]

The child may have learned the techniques of self-defense but lacks the ability to apply them. There is difference between knowing how to punch and kick correctly vs having the ability to do so to someone who wants to hit you back. This is even more so the case with Martial Arts that don't require you to actually use the technique against a partner like BJJ and other grappling arts use. What I'm reading is that they child may have the skills for physical self-defense but lacks the ability to apply it.

So it's the child's fault basically in your eyes. Throw him in a fight and he'll either get beaten up or learn to beat someone else up. Yep good advice right there. NOT.

I think we'll just leave the child in the hands of the OP who seems to be a very good instructor with all the right ideas.

 

[JowGaWolf]

With kids that's really not necessarily true. Often a "gang" of kids has one person who is the real bully, and others who back them up (give them the confidence of numbers). I was bullied a pretty good amount growing up, and it almost always involved groups of kids (at least 2, up to I think 5 or 6 in the largest group). In each case, when they got physical and I fought back, it all ended as soon as I had the upper hand with the one leading them. I'm not saying there's never going to be another kid stepping in, but I never experienced it.

This is my experience to when I had to deal with a bully and his followers. For me I didn't have to fight more than one person. I just had to spot the leader's weaknesses and put him into a position where he can either save face and walk away or lose what influence he had on those who followed him. I was that kid who leaned how to manipulate a situation where if I thought I could turn a group of people on their leader then I would give it a try. In my experience I gave just enough room for the bully to say that I wasn't work his time and to end the conflict with him calling me weak. I was fine with that as long has he knew that I wasn't going to back down.

It's funny that you mentioned this because it works that way in nature too. Take out the alpha male and the rest are easier to deal with.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Did you read everything I wrote there or just the first line?

I read everything and commented on that portion of your statement.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So it's the child's fault basically in your eyes. Throw him in a fight and he'll either get beaten up or learn to beat someone else up. Yep good advice right there. NOT.

I think we'll just leave the child in the hands of the OP who seems to be a very good instructor with all the right ideas.

No it's not the child's fault. It's just that you can't expect someone to have confidence in something when they don't have or trust their ability. I think throwing him into a fight would be the worst thing to do. My son had a lot of self-defense talk way before he actually took martial arts. I think I started explaining human behavior (kids behavior) maybe 3 or 4 years before he even threw a punch. I was concerned about him being picked on in school so I would talk to him about the things that kids sometimes do.

By the time he had his first sparring match he already had a good idea of strategy. He already knew to look for weaknesses and openings, not just physically but mentally as well. My son is a shy kid, but he'll sit back and watch and listen and take in his surroundings. I'm not worried about him being shy because he'll most likely grow out it like I grew out of mine. As for the other kids in my school I take them through a similar process. I explain to them some common weaknesses that bullies have. I also talk to them about the importance in believing in themselves. I have personally sparred with all of the children because I think it's good for them. It helps them build a certain level of comfort in their ability. It's no different than a son wrestling with his father as a kid. It gives the child the ability to safely test their physical limits and it gives them a chance to experience someone who is physically stronger than they are without having that fear that normally comes with sparring against peers. For them it's just play time, but in reality they are getting more out of it than playing.

My rule for kids sparring is the same as the rule for adult sparring. You can't mix it up with others until you learn how to use basic defensive techniques to minimize the damage.

As for the child learning how to apply the technique. That's a partnership experience between the instructor and the student. Part of it is on the student the other part is on the instructor. It's not something anyone can do on their own. The instructor has to provide correct instruction. The student must be willing to learn how use the techniques. It's up to the instructor to provide the opportunity to learn how to apply self-defense. It is up to the student to go through the learning process that's required to be able to apply the techniques.

 

[hoshin1600]

There's solid psychological research on self confidence, including approaches that help build it.

I agree. But from my experience many instructors never look into that and leave it up to chance and luck. I prefer to do things by design.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

from the posted link....
"The primary way it (martial arts) helps is that regularly practicing the martial arts will give them the self-confidence to not need it. Martial artists feel an inner confidence from knowing that they've spent many hours practicing each move, that it's powerful and swift. There may be better techniques (there's always more to learn, even at my current Taekwondo 7th Dan level) but there comes a point where you know enough to think "I may get hurt, but I KNOW they'll get hurt if they try it!".

And having that inward self-confidence projects outwards. The timid/shy persona that bullies are attracted to like sharks sensing blood in the water gradually fades away."

from my own experience i think this is misunderstood. again self image problems take a really long time to adjust and so does learning traditional martial arts, so by the time one gains profiency and confidence the bulling stopped long ago. also we all know there is no guarantee that martial arts classes will provide the ability to defend ones self.

so what happens when Johnny starts taking karate lessons and the bully finds out and makes a mockery about it and still beats up Johnny even worse because Johnny sucks at karate..???? how does Johnny feel then?

My own experience closely mirrors what the post says. I gained confidence from martial arts, actually had to use them only once during that time - the confidence (my reaction) ended most of the bullying (the one use was probably directly responsible for that group stopping).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Name 5 policies or curriculum strategies that you implemented to specifically address self confidence and esteem.

Does it have to be specifically implemented to address that, or can it be something they would have done anyway, and also promotes improvement of self confidence?