Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bruce7, Jan 6, 2019.
Yeah, sometimes I even reply to myself.
I can not imagine letting someone catch my leg in a fight.
This must have been a point tournaments.
I don't think I have ever seen Joe Lewis or Bill Superfoot Wallace let someone catch their leg.
I agree with you with your definition of a punch, but I think of a kick as any kind of strike done with the legs or feet and in lots of martial arts knee strikes are referred to as kicks.
And as I said, a person with good footwork would be able to put themselves in good positions to land kicks with the feet, even if their opponent is bringing the pressure on.
No arguments there. My instructors have just always not included them in the term, and I picked up the habit.
Yep, which goes back to my earlier post that it would need a better kicker than me.
It was two seperate thoughts. One was to the question posed in the OP, the other to the offshoot subject of having a kick caught. And, yup, it was in competitions, both points and in the ring.
As for Joe and Bill, having trained with both, you would be better off trying to catch a Cadillac speeding down hill. I once asked Joe to kick some kicking shields I was holding as hard as he could with a sidekick. He told me I really didn't want to do that. But being a pain in the butt I was persistent.
Not my brightest moment. All I can say is HO-LEE f''n shhh...
Obviously, I never got kicked by either man, but I was expecting that to be the answer. And the speed of Wallace's kicks, I think I'd look silly getting kicked THEN grabbing the empty air where that leg was when it kicked me. Then, of course, since my arm is busy trying to grab a leg that isn't there, he'd be able to kick me again. Best not to try.
For a lot of reasons I put a knee more in the same category of a punch. Closer and quicker than a kick. Plus if not done properly or done by someone who doesn't kick a lot, a kick can put you in an awkward position.
Wallace is an interesting study IMO. You can look at all the film on him you want, from tournaments, PKA, seminars, whatever, and yeah, he looks good, but not much different from other people. But when you're actually facing his kicks they are unlike anything I've ever seen in Martial Arts.
In seminars, he is a wealth of knowledge due to his experience and eduction - but you could train with him every day of your life and will never kick like him. I don't mean kick as well as him, you just can't kick like him at all. It's so so different.
I went to an Indianapolis seminar in 1986 with Wallace and his professional trainer Ronin Harrison. @Buka, you are correct about his kick. I have never seen anyone who could repeatedly kick as many times so effortlessly. It did not matter whether he was static or moving forward/backward. Something he really drilled during the seminar. Ronin was stronger and probably had better overall endurance but Bill was just so smooth and evasive. An amazing man.
I imagine you're referring to Jim Harrison? Now there's a seriously bad m'fker.
We used to say you only need two things to fight Jim Harrison. A high powered rifle and a handgun.
That way, if you miss with the rifle you can use the handgun on yourself.
Yes, Jim "Ronin" Harrison. Totally agree with your comment.
The way you describe him (I’ve never heard of Harrison before), he sounds to me like the late, great William Oliver. By all accounts, and I know plenty of people who’ve trained alongside and under him, he was smooth, effortless, fast and strong.
@Buka has competed against him (why wouldn’t he have ). Is/was Harrison along the same lines as Oliver, Buka? Would it be possible to catch Oliver’s kick or at least live to tell about it if you did?
I was going to send you a message when I noticed 3300 likes were taken of by 12 dislikes, that 275 likes per 1 dislike.
Your like, dislike program is crazy! I thought 1 dislike being worth 14 likes was bad, but that's nothing compare to what it did to you.
Am I missing something? What are you talking about?
I don't think Jim Harrison is along the same lines as anyone, I really don't. He's before my time, but I've met and spoke with him several times when I was young and on the circuit. To give you an idea, read this, look at his background and accomplishments. And when Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee talk all nice nice about you, well, you know. I think when they made up the that adage, He's the wrong guy to fight with....they were probably thinking about Mister Harrison.
Tough Guys: Jim "Ronin" Harrison - Tom Furman Fitness
And Jim Harrison still trains today. He is something else.
As for William Oliver, wow. What a loss when he passed. I competed against him when I was a kid. I got smoked. But so did everyone else that day. And he was a really nice man. But I'll tell you, that man had some of the best timing I've ever seen.
It's possible to catch anyone's kick, I guess. But Oliver was way too smart for that. WAY.
You have 9507 likes and 36 dislikes.
9507 -5072 = 4435 /36 = 123
8320-5016=3304/12 = 275
Your right I must be missing something.
The "positive ratings received" is a total of other ratings. My current rating:
5075 like + 3114 agree + 1122 funny +134 informative + 40 useful = 9485. Add in the 25 dislikes, and you get 9510, so apparently dislikes actually add to the positive ratings (which seems odd). In summary, the "Positive Ratings Received" is apparently a total of everything except "Disagree".
Thank you. Wish I could give you a like to go with the useful.
Yes. But when we feel time is scarce (panic) and we start punching and rooting the feet, then it feels risky to change tactics... If punches worked, fine. If not, too late.
I have used kicks on someone in a real fight. Most of the time, it was lower like to an ankle while wearing heavy boots and it dropped them. A couple of times, it was a front heel thrust kick to the abdominal area to knock them back. I have also used the "sweep step" as found in Naihanchi kata a few times and it worked wonders while in clinch/grappling range. This does not include any knee strikes.
Separate names with a comma.