Hattori Hanzo - The Family Lineage

[Enson]

sojobow, please help out by using the quote button. it would help. i understand that you are trying to show a pattern but it does lead to confusion.

peace

 

[Don Roley]

At least this idiots question has been partially answered. There were Chinese (from China) in the areas and still imagrating during the time of (dare I say) Hanzo. Thus, they may have taught the 2 Stratagems.

Oh, and where did you get your proof that there were Chinese teaching the Japanese ninjutsu in the 16th century? Or that there were Chinese in the Iga area as late as that?

This does seem to be the agenda that you have tried to hit time and time again. Since you lack any type of link to Japan, it now seems that you want to create the impression that ninjutsu is a Chinese art and leave open the idea that schools such as the Koga Yamabushi ryu should not be treated as frauds even though there is no evidence of their existence in Japan. It is of course a silly theory, but you only have to create the impression and not really provide proof or impress those that know the subject matter well.

Again, ninjutsu is a Japanese, not a Chinese art. Arts that can show proof of a link to Japan can be talked about in the traditional section even if they train in how to shoot a pistol or clear rooms like a SWAT team. Any art that uses the ninjutsu name but can not show a link to Japan can post here. If you do not claim to be anything other than a modern invention like Tew ryu, then there is no problem. But if you claim to teach or have trained in an art that goes back a few generations and are not in the traditional section, then I guess the best thing to do would be to try to convince people that your art is not in there only because it is a Chinese ninjutsu art.

 

[sojobow]

sojobow, please help out by using the quote button. it would help. i understand that you are trying to show a pattern but it does lead to confusion. peace

At least you noticed the pattern of those using Hattori Hanzo versus Hanzo Hattori. Personally, I really don't care about this "link to Japan" or this "in Japan." What I want to do is learn to Win today! Don't care much which Nation provides usefull assistance. Don't care much if its Ninjitsu, Ninjutsu, Scooby Doo, Shoot You Ryu, Shaolin Kung Fu, Stick Fighting, American Special Ops, Rome's Romanizations or why some Kanji is vertical and other's horizontal or why so much "Ninjutsu" was originally written in Chinese and not Japanese. Important thing, did the techniques taught work. If the Samurai attacked Iga and Iga beat them back, I want to know what Strategy was used by Iga and what fighting techniques were used to Win. Don't give a flying bee about the correctness of the History "in Japan." Who won and how they won is of interest. Have enough trouble with American History and how Bush won Florida. Again, operative word: Won.

 

[Kizaru]

Don't care much which Nation provides usefull assistance. Don't care much if its Ninjitsu, Ninjutsu, Scooby Doo, Shoot You Ryu, Shaolin Kung Fu, Stick Fighting, American Special Ops, Rome's Romanizations or why some Kanji is vertical and other's horizontal or why so much "Ninjutsu" was originally written in Chinese and not Japanese...

When you wake up in the morning, you beat yourself on the head with pots and pans, don't you?

Don't give a flying bee about the correctness of the History "in Japan." ...

THAT has been abundantly clear.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Don't give a flying bee about the correctness of the History "in Japan."

Which is why I asked what the deal is with Neo people and China, seeing as ninjutsu is a Japanese phenomenon.

Who won and how they won is of interest.

In China, you mean? :wink2: In that case, why don't you do us all a big favour and move on to a couple of forums for the discussion of China and its martial history - emptyflower.com for example?

 

[heretic888]

At least you noticed the pattern of those using Hattori Hanzo versus Hanzo Hattori. Personally, I really don't care about this "link to Japan" or this "in Japan." What I want to do is learn to Win today!

Then this begs the obvious question, sojobow, why is it that you were the one that started a thread pertaining to the familial linega of Hattori Hanzo?? You seem to be contradicting yourself. Again.

Don't care much which Nation provides usefull assistance. Don't care much if its Ninjitsu, Ninjutsu, Scooby Doo, Shoot You Ryu, Shaolin Kung Fu, Stick Fighting, American Special Ops, Rome's Romanizations or why some Kanji is vertical and other's horizontal or why so much "Ninjutsu" was originally written in Chinese and not Japanese.

Then perhaps the "ninjutsu forums" are not the most appropriate place for you.

If the Samurai attacked Iga and Iga beat them back, I want to know what Strategy was used by Iga and what fighting techniques were used to Win.

If you want to know the strategies and tactics employed by the historical "Iga ninja", then:
1) You should be asking this in the Traditional Ninjutsu forum.
2) You are studying the wrong art. Togakure ryu Ninjutsu is the closest thing to what you are asking for.
3) You are, in fact, asking questions that pertain to the accuracy of Japanese history.

Don't give a flying bee about the correctness of the History "in Japan."

You just contradicted yourself again. You claim no interest in Japanese history, but the subject you claim to be interested in (the strategies and tactics of the Iga "ninja") has a hell of a lot to do with Japanese history and culture.

Who won and how they won is of interest. Have enough trouble with American History and how Bush won Florida. Again, operative word: Won.

This is not the Study. Discuss your political opinions elsewhere.

Laterz.

 

[Michael Billings]

Please keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Michael Billings
-MT S-Moderator

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

In the end, Iga was conquered by Nobunaga's forces.
What I find interesting, is how and why the martial heritage of Iga has survived to this day.

 

[heretic888]

What I find interesting, is how and why the martial heritage of Iga has survived to this day.

Prolly cause the Iga folks got real chummy with the Tokugawas.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Ba-da-bip, ba-da-bing-bang-boom.:ultracool