Has MMA surpassed traditional MA in its effectiveness

[still learning]

Hello, America has the greatest Arm forces in the world......just because it is the best or greatness in weapons and arm forces...

Means Nothing to those who resists...Vietnam, Korean war...and now the talibans....

MMA is very impressive on TV...With rules.....they win most fights in the ring? ...take away the rules....it will NOT be the martial art style that wins....It will be the Individual with the best skills or has the first effective strike!

What should be consider here? ..is what is the most effective strikes or tarkets to hit and destroy...?

and the answer will be...the one that becomes open......".UM" eyes are almost always open....!

raking or poking eyes..can be done standing up,sitting down, or on the ground........How many years of training to learn this technique?

.....two eyes...may need to use one or two hands...(kick with a foot works here too).....will it take longer to train when eyes close? ...first yours then theirs....? .....the hundred of variations...could take years?

NOT............Aloha,

PS: All grapplers know...when you take someone down...biting,eye gouging...will be use....BY None MA and MA's....

 

[Tez3]

effectiveness overall ! i didnt mean for some of you to have a pissy fit ¨excuse me grandmasters of the martial arts world if i offended you ? just asking a question this is a fourm to spark up conv. about things that are on our minds at any given time if this topic is below your pay grade dont answer to it ? its for some of us that are new here and for the ones with open minds , some of us dont really got time or in the mood to go back and check up on previous post - for what to read what you posted 6 months or a year ago like if it was some sord of chapter in the bible ? come on now whats the dilly ...

Has MMA surpassed traditional MA in its effectiveness : survival mode ?

Where I come from thats just crude.

Okay, lets do this again >sigh< MMA is a competitive sport.

Some people just do MMA, some people do MMA and TMA, some people do MMA, TMA and SD and some people like to post silly threads that don't mean anything or actually make sense.

:deadhorse

 

[Cirdan]

sometimes I wish the word "effective" was never invented....

 

[Omar B]

Because it's never effectively used?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

sometimes I wish the word "effective" was never invented....

It should be a gramatical crime to use it without qualification.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

by reading some of your post i see that some of you guys feel that the mma sport would not work in sd situation ? look i hear and feel what some of you are saying you all have valid points , i guess the only way to know would be to confront a mma on the street and see whats he all about , but sense that doesnt make no sense going out and doing something like that i guess some of us will probably never know...

I guess you missed my first post back in this thread. I didn't say MMA was not effective, I said that in many cases, it'll depend on the gym. If a MMA gym focuses on just ring fighting, no weapons, nothing other than UFC type fighting, then IMO, you will fight like you train. No, its not rocket science to kick someone in the groin, but if you're not thinking of it, due to the rule set, you may not do it in the real fight outside of the ring. I also gave a few pros and cons of each.

If we stop and think about it, much comes down to how each person trains. You could take art X and say it sucks because it lacks A, B and C, but perhaps if one of the students of art X takes it upon himself to round out his ground game, then he will be in a seperate group from the others.

In closing, I must ask...what is the point you're trying to make with the youtube clip?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Like MJS I want a little insight into your video clip?

On the clip:

I see a lot of sucker punching, group stomping a few agreed upon fights and really little to no mma. (though there was a nice mount at the beginning)

Oh and I see a lot of immature people!

Now to avoid what is on the video I usually do not hang around a lot of immature people particularly where the alcohol or other vices are being consumed!

 

[suicide]

yeah and whos to say whos qualified effectively :barf:

 

[Tez3]

yeah and whos to say whos qualified effectively :barf:

effectively at what?

 

[MJS]

yeah and whos to say whos qualified effectively :barf:

Ummm...what the hell are you talking about???? Are you talking about the clip you just posted? If so, let me say this....after training in the arts for 20+ yrs, I think I'm qualified to look at a clip and determine if they have any skill or if they suck. Nobody in that clip impressed me at all.

 

[MJS]

effectiveness overall ! i didnt mean for some of you to have a pissy fit ¨excuse me grandmasters of the martial arts world if i offended you ? just asking a question this is a fourm to spark up conv. about things that are on our minds at any given time if this topic is below your pay grade dont answer to it ? its for some of us that are new here and for the ones with open minds , some of us dont really got time or in the mood to go back and check up on previous post - for what to read what you posted 6 months or a year ago like if it was some sord of chapter in the bible ? come on now whats the dilly ...

Has MMA surpassed traditional MA in its effectiveness : survival mode ?

First off, chill out man! Second, if you're reading before you post, you should see many posts, mine included, that give credit to both, but seeing that both, MMA and TMA are 2 different games, it only makes sense to understand that depending on the circumstance, one will be better than the other. As I said before, there are strong and weak points in both, and both can benefit from each other.

 

[mwd0818]

Effectiveness how?

Let's just say self-defense in general. (Getting jumped while filming a ghetto fights video let's say?)

Is practicing kata, one-step sparring and breaking boards going to get you through it? Probably not.

How about rolling around on the ground going for a submission with rules that don't allow for multiple attackers, bites, eye gouges, finger rakes, etc. Probably not.

What MMA did for self-defense was bring about an awareness of the need for real and hard training against resistance. Any school, regardless of style (MMA, TMA, etc.) that trains hard, with resistance and realistic attacking, is contributing to one's ability to be effective in a traditional street situation.

Now, if you want to define "effective" differently, I guess it depends on what the definition of "is" is . . .

 

[searcher]

Not to beat the horse anymore, but what are you talking about suicide? Having taught tactical handgun classes for a few years now and varying MAs for more years then I want to count, I don't see how the "fights" in the video are relating to what this discussion is supposed to be about. In a situation like the video, I would guarentee I would have drawn my carry gun and defended myself. And I am not sure why you would think that what was in the video has anything to do with MMA or TMA. It is a gang style brawl. Last time I looked, I did not see that in any |MMA or TMA.

Please elaborate for us, as I am getting confused about the topic at hand.

 

[BLACK LION]

that only applies to budo & taoist based arts, for the most part. there are plenty of styles which are in fact only about self-defense or combat.

jf

I woefully disagree.
Character, Honor and integrity are essential to any good human being. You cannot do whats right and you cannot do whats just if you lack the essentials... These dont come standard only to certian arts... they are a standard every man woman and child should adhere to.

In combat... without integrity you will not survive...if you do it was probably becuase someone with integrity saved your life...
Honor is what deems character and what are you without character... what are you without respect...what are you without dignity??? These are nutrients to the being and without them we are no different than a sociopath.



As far as the original post... there is no such thing as surpass... What can be conceived now as a progression will end up as a degradation. I see much delusion and dilliution

I can see both sides clearly and those firmly planted in the principles that actually matter on an ultimate scale will survive the test of time.

The majority seems to get fixated on things that lack content...they seem to enjoy being peed on and led to believe its yellow rain. It seems to be more about everything its not supposed to be...rather than everything that is essential and wholesome...
There are those out there that live by the code and will die by it.... becuase they exist, whats true will remain until we are all gone...whats false will fade away into history.

many excellent points made here... take care out there ladies and gentlemen.

 

[BLACK LION]

It should be a gramatical crime to use it without qualification.

Daniel

Aka= "grammacide"

 

[BLACK LION]

I dont know about most people but I have a hard time making social comparisons these days. The evil in "man" is so much more profound and abroad than people think and behave. There is great ignorance here.
Comparing social and antisocial behavior is like comparing oranges to tangerines or lemons... it is senseless and seemingly pointless as the outcome is the same...there is a winner and a loser.

Now my friend...compare social behavior against asocial behavior and you are comparing oranges to steak knives... a clear, present and dangerous difference...

If you seek to compare things on a bigger, stronger, faster, technical and esoteric scale...well then there is always better... there are always improvements...there is always the "latest and the greatest" trumping its predecessor... we see this in everything from computers to cars to ammunition calibers... there is always the next best thing. But this is all on a scale that is based on rules... take those rules away and you have those who will do whatever it takes to come out on top...not to win...but to completelty obliterate thier opposition...
Take the war in Iraq and afghanistan for example... here you have guys that look like normal people and dont use the latest and the greatest technology but yet they are giving the most powerful country in the world a run for their money... they only have to use a dead dog and a receiver strapped to some home made pow pow and booooom....there goes 8 highly trained warriors with state of the art equipment...

make sense??

excuse my rant yet again...

 

[just2kicku]

by reading some of your post i see that some of you guys feel that the mma sport would not work in sd situation ? look i hear and feel what some of you are saying you all have valid points , i guess the only way to know would be to confront a mma on the street and see whats he all about , but sense that doesnt make no sense going out and doing something like that i guess some of us will probably never know...

What the hell is that video. I have to agree with Jon on this one, shoot first ask later. The best defense against that, not hang out with the thugs. A situation like that is pretty easy to see and avoid. The only way I see that happening to someone is taking a wrong turn down a wrong street and getting jumped. Other than that.......I don't even know what to say about that garbage, and who in their right mind would buy **** like this. Hell, I don't even know what the point of the video was.

 

[Flying Crane]

that only applies to budo & taoist based arts, for the most part. there are plenty of styles which are in fact only about self-defense or combat.

jf

I woefully disagree.
Character, Honor and integrity are essential to any good human being. You cannot do whats right and you cannot do whats just if you lack the essentials... These dont come standard only to certian arts... they are a standard every man woman and child should adhere to.

In combat... without integrity you will not survive...if you do it was probably becuase someone with integrity saved your life...
Honor is what deems character and what are you without character... what are you without respect...what are you without dignity??? These are nutrients to the being and without them we are no different than a sociopath.

I disagree with both.

Character, honor, and integrity are only connected to the MAs on a personal level, insomuch as the individual chooses to make it so. There is nothing inherent about any art, including budo and arts from a taoist background, that makes these characteristics mandatory. No amount of preaching or teaching or brow-beating by the instructor can make this a reality in the student. Only the individual can choose to live a life with good character, honor, and integrity, in whatever way that may be defined. The art itself most definitely does NOT make it so.

And having these traits is no guarantee that one will get thru combat. In fact, I'd suggest that one who is willing to sacrifice these traits if necessary in order to do whatever is required to get thru a life-threatening situation, may have the advantage.

 

[Omar B]

this thread has effectively said nothing with a whole bunch of words!

But really, comparing or contrasting the 2 is never going to get you anywhere. Different mediums, different aims. It's like people who argue classical music versus jazz. where's the argument, both are great and take piles of talent and compositional skill, accept them for what they are.

 

[BLACK LION]

I disagree with both.

Character, honor, and integrity are only connected to the MAs on a personal level, insomuch as the individual chooses to make it so. There is nothing inherent about any art, including budo and arts from a taoist background, that makes these characteristics mandatory. No amount of preaching or teaching or brow-beating by the instructor can make this a reality in the student. Only the individual can choose to live a life with good character, honor, and integrity, in whatever way that may be defined. The art itself most definitely does NOT make it so.

And having these traits is no guarantee that one will get thru combat. In fact, I'd suggest that one who is willing to sacrifice these traits if necessary in order to do whatever is required to get thru a life-threatening situation, may have the advantage.

"Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome.

Everything in life is only as good as its integrity...wether its man, trees, or machines.