Has MMA surpassed traditional MA in its effectiveness

[celtic_crippler]

whats your opinion on this ...

"Effectiveness" as related to what?

Generally speaking, most martial arts (even those that prefer to be labeled as "mixed") can teach you something of use. Whether it's for self-defense or sport.

The world, including martial arts, ain't black and white and there is no such thing as the super-duper-unconquerable-style-martial-art.

Bury the horse already...it's drawing flies.

 

[Milt G.]

Hello,

MMA and TMA cannot "surpass" each other any more then an apple can surpass an orange. They are different things, which only share some commonalities.

I believe it is the individual practitioner, and not the art or discipline, that is the deciding factor.

An interesting thought, though...
Thanks,
Milt G.

 

[searcher]

If effectiveness is what you are looking for, then go buy a gun and start training with it.

Gun trumps hands, feet, etc. And I am not really looking for a fair fight. I want to survive at the end of the day. I have been training for 30 years and I carry a HG almost every day.

Besides, MMA matches are not street fights. If you think I won't bite, eye gouge, punch in the sack, or resort to any "dirty" tactics on the street, you had better wake up. IMO, on the street it is a matter of life or death, or I would not be fighting. I am more than willing to use anything at my disposal to come out on top. Please take note that I did not say win. If I have to fight, nobody is going to win.

 

[thesandman]

It saddens me the way the UFC has stolen the term "Mixed Martial Arts". I've trained in a mixed martial arts system for almost 20 years, but it's a true mixing of martial arts, that is a combination of several styles. My training has been a solid blending of Tang-soo-do, Jujitsu, Aikido and Modern Arnis. Several traditional styles mixed into a system.

But if I tell people I train in a "MMA" they think I'm working with guys that have no neck in a petulant attempt to hurt each other in an octagon.

I will come out on a limb and denounce the UFC. The UFC is about blood lust. It caters to a crowd of fans that just want to see people hurt. They want "realism" by which they mean brutality. It's a mind-set contradictory to the precepts of every phylisophically sound martial arts style I've ever been in contact with.

The martial arts is about more than simply self-defense. It's also about honor, integrity and the harmony of mind, body and spirit. It's about putting ourselves on a healthy path. The UFC has made it harder by it's nature to pass on these traditions to another generation as more and more parents and even adult students associate the martial arts in general with what they see in the UFC. It's a disgrace and a tragedy to what every instructor should be trying to accomplish in their communities.

So from a perspective on the effectiveness of a traditional art vs UFC training on actually making someone a better person: Not even a little.

From a perspective of teaching someone an effective way to defend themselves it would I'm sure depend on the direct comparison but unless you're attacked on the street by a someone with a portable octagon cage I would say not.

 

[jarrod]

The martial arts is about more than simply self-defense. It's also about honor, integrity and the harmony of mind, body and spirit.

that only applies to budo & taoist based arts, for the most part. there are plenty of styles which are in fact only about self-defense or combat.

jf

 

[thesandman]

that only applies to budo & taoist based arts, for the most part. there are plenty of styles which are in fact only about self-defense or combat.

jf

I concede that point, though I'll amend to say that to "Responsible Martial Arts..."

To teach violence with no balance, no addressing of character is grossly irresponsible.

 

[bowser666]

Define effectiveness? Effective at what ? getting in shape, S/D , etc......


Again i must agree with a previous post, MMA = Sport


next topic

 

[Deaf Smith]

There can be no MMA > TMA or vice versa. It's the person that matters and what they have developed from their chosen art. Just as the old TKD .vs. Jujitsu .vs. Shotokan .vs. Okinawan karate .vs. Kung Fu .vs... is all academic, so is MMA .vs. TMA. It's the individual that counts.

Over the years I've seen excellent practitioners in several arts. As a result, I look at the individual and what they can do over what particular style they belong to. Those that are smart use one art as a base and then explore others to grow and broaden themselves.

And thus you will see Shototkan stylist do kicking routines that look just like TKD and TKDist that have hands like those in Kenpo. And Jujitsu practitioners who can punch like a good boxer.

That's what makes the martial arts so interesting to me. There is no limit to your growth and variety.

Deaf

 

[Tez3]

It saddens me the way the UFC has stolen the term "Mixed Martial Arts". I've trained in a mixed martial arts system for almost 20 years, but it's a true mixing of martial arts, that is a combination of several styles. My training has been a solid blending of Tang-soo-do, Jujitsu, Aikido and Modern Arnis. Several traditional styles mixed into a system.

But if I tell people I train in a "MMA" they think I'm working with guys that have no neck in a petulant attempt to hurt each other in an octagon.

I will come out on a limb and denounce the UFC. The UFC is about blood lust. It caters to a crowd of fans that just want to see people hurt. They want "realism" by which they mean brutality. It's a mind-set contradictory to the precepts of every phylisophically sound martial arts style I've ever been in contact with.

The martial arts is about more than simply self-defense. It's also about honor, integrity and the harmony of mind, body and spirit. It's about putting ourselves on a healthy path. The UFC has made it harder by it's nature to pass on these traditions to another generation as more and more parents and even adult students associate the martial arts in general with what they see in the UFC. It's a disgrace and a tragedy to what every instructor should be trying to accomplish in their communities.

So from a perspective on the effectiveness of a traditional art vs UFC training on actually making someone a better person: Not even a little.

From a perspective of teaching someone an effective way to defend themselves it would I'm sure depend on the direct comparison but unless you're attacked on the street by a someone with a portable octagon cage I would say not.

I've asked this many times and will again, please don't judge MMA solely on the UFC. I know it's the biggest and the best hyped show but it's not the sum total of MMA.

 

[Andrew Green]

I've asked this many times and will again, please don't judge MMA solely on the UFC. I know it's the biggest and the best hyped show but it's not the sum total of MMA.

I think the fair thing to do is judge traditional styles based solely on their most in your face and flashy component in the same way. Olympic TKD? XMA? Open Tournaments? After school programs?

The UFC is a show, its whole purpose is to sell PPV tickets. Having good fighters and good fights is a part of that, but all the silly antics and trash talking help sell more tickets, which makes more money, which is their goal. So we get that to.

No different then what happens when traditional arts are turned into a mass spectator friendly format. You might still have some really skilled and talented people, but they are adapting what they do to put on a show.

Fortunately, in MMA, this doesn't effect what they actually do for the most part, mainly just a bunch of pro-wrestling style nonsense leading up to it. In TMA you have to wear clown suits, scream lots, use shiny weapons that aren't really weapons and do acrobatics.

 

[tallgeese]

We've been round this so many times, none of us are going to convince the others we're right or wrong.

As for my thoughts, yes, the individual practitioner makes a huge difference in one's capabilities. But there are arts out there more geared to towards actual self defense than others. What is studied will make a difference. More importantly, the schools training methodology will make a big difference as well.

On that front, often MMA gyms have a leg up. Most of their training comes out of drills that incorporate movement and multiple componants from other concerns. So, you'll be doing a mitt combo, and moving, and throwing a defensive pattern, and at the end you'll sprawl from a takedown. It's more integrated than many TMA's and "live".

Not to say that one has to be training in an MMA gym, and other arts that truely base training around a model like that can really put together some great things.

As for the limited weapons, yup, it's a bit concern for MMAers when you talk about sd. However, if you look at many of the things people tout: eye gouges, low punches and kicks, biting; most of these are easy and instincitve to pick up. If you get someone who is MMA trained, then chances are they can do some of those with minimal effort.

As for not culturally passing anything down, that's a different story and wasn't the original question. Even if you don't train MMA, there are plenty of training aspects that can be used by TMA practitoiners that would improve their game.

 

[just2kicku]

I will say no, excuse me while I go get another stick, this one seems to have broke from beating a dead horse.

 

[ronagle]

It's part of the ongoing evolution, but due to a lack of modern weapon training, I think it's too specialized to be able to claim that. Like so many other martial arts, it really boils down to your motivation in training in the first place.

 

[mwd0818]

:deadhorse

I used to be into sadism, bestiality and necrophilia . . . then I woke up one day and realized I was just beating a dead horse.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

whats your opinion on this ...

Okay, normally, when a topic is posted that has been posted a bunch of times, I refrain from ripping the poster because I believe that people do post with the intention of getting honest answers.

But have you yourself not started this conversation more than once before this??

Daniel

 

[searcher]

Here is how we settle this for the final time. Get the best MMA guy(don't care who), the best TMA guy(again I don't care who), and you put them up against any "qualified" shooter armed with their firearm of choice.

The one who is NOT dead will be declared as the most effective.


Does everyone see how silly the argument is? Next problem please.

 

[Flying Crane]

wow. another pointless, repetitive thread. who wudda guessed?

 

[suicide]

effectiveness overall ! i didnt mean for some of you to have a pissy fit ¨excuse me grandmasters of the martial arts world if i offended you ? just asking a question this is a fourm to spark up conv. about things that are on our minds at any given time if this topic is below your pay grade dont answer to it ? its for some of us that are new here and for the ones with open minds , some of us dont really got time or in the mood to go back and check up on previous post - for what to read what you posted 6 months or a year ago like if it was some sord of chapter in the bible ? come on now whats the dilly ...

Has MMA surpassed traditional MA in its effectiveness : survival mode ?

 

[still learning]

Hello, The most effective martial arts or fighting systems is the NOT the art...each systems has it weakness and strenghts-

It is the people within each style that make it better or worst..."how".." you train one self..."

If you learn and train hard? ...in what ever martial art you train? ....it will work for you on the streets...

So far? ...Proper Verbal speaking...is the most effective style..less damage to the body...and less cost to in the end..

Interaction of words is better... than the interaction of the hands and feet....( a smaller and weaker person in strength can defeat..the biggest guys in the world here)

Smart means- avoidance ............Aloha, " too much talking" ...can work against you too?

PS: learn to talk smart....bigger muscle maybe needed here?

 

[suicide]

by reading some of your post i see that some of you guys feel that the mma sport would not work in sd situation ? look i hear and feel what some of you are saying you all have valid points , i guess the only way to know would be to confront a mma on the street and see whats he all about , but sense that doesnt make no sense going out and doing something like that i guess some of us will probably never know...