Halls Of Fame

[tshadowchaser]

Over the years many "Hall Of Fame" groups have come into exsistance. Some focus on on style, some are open to all styles. Some are hall(s) of fame are for Black Belts only, others are open to all ranks. Some only have adults, some allow children.
So my guestions are:
>1< What requierments would you have for a person be inducted into a Hall of Fame?
>2< Would you set age and Rank requirements?
>3< What would you not allow and WHY?
>4< IS there a hallof fame that you fell is a good one and Why?
>5< IS there a bad one and Why? If so how do you feel it could be made into a good one?
>6< Should a person ever be addmitted to a Hall of Fame more than once? WHY?
>7< other thoughts
Lets not Flame any group or organisation. If a side or new thread needs to come out of this good, but lets get some ofthese ideas addressed.
Thanks
Shadow:asian:

 

[Ty K. Doe]

I feel the qualification should include people who have become famous in one respect or another for positive achievements in martial arts regardless of age, rank, or gender.

 

[GouRonin]

Any hall of fame that asks you to PAY to be in it sounds bad to me. There are a lot of guys who deserve recognition but to ask them to pay to be in? I dunno. It's a good marketing issue though to have this on your resume.

 

[Jay Bell]

Any hall of fame that asks you to PAY to be in it sounds bad to me.

I'll go one step further. Any hall of fame for martial arts sounds bad to me.

 

[bdparsons]

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Jay Bell



I'll go one step further. Any hall of fame for martial arts sounds bad to me.

Why's that?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I agree if you have to buy your way in its wrong.
But why dont you two like the idea of honoring those who have worked most of their life to promote, enrich, or preserve the Arts?
Gou, Welcome back
Shadow

 

[Jay Bell]

Hi Kirk,

A Hall of Fame scenario in martial arts brings out some sort of competition between people. Budo isn't about competition. It's about building character and developing one's self.

Over and again I've seen people that end up in "Hall's of Fame" that later turn out to be crooked and dishonest human beings. What holds true for someone that ends up in a Hall of Fame? Well, simply put...that they have an audience. So did David Koresh.

I don't want you to think that I feel everyone in the Hall of Fames are has-beens or run cults....but there is no way to define how a person is based on their students. I myself have been taken in by martial art instructors in the past...that at the time I thought were the best thing since sliced bread.

Hall of Fame ideas in my opinion, do nothing more but add to the already shattered ideas of Asian martial arts...and do even more to adapt those arts and artists to our lazy and "short cut" ideals.

I'm not sure if anyone caught it, but a few years ago I watched a martial arts "masters" program on tv. How many of these people were legitimately traditional martial artists worth their weight in dung? Two or three tops. The rest were self proclaimed masters and grandmasters of concepts that stemmed from four yellow belts. These typically end up being the people "elected" into Hall of Fames. As a side note, they also gave Westley Snipes a Godan. A Godan in WHAT? No idea...they never said. Who were these people to give him a godan? Self proclaimed masters. These types of things don't sit well with me.

It sickens me that someone can snap their fingers and end up in Hall of Fames, Masters, Grandmasters or what have you. The master instructors in the art that I study have experianced more pain, blood and sacrifice then many people care to even realize. What do they get for that? Self riteous people that proclaim themselves that good in 1/20th of the time based on their dire persuit of glory and fame ($$).

Sorry if I went on a bit of a tangent there...but this type of thing really strikes a chord in me.

Be well all,

Jay

 

[disciple]

"The more bamboo grows the lower it bows"


salute

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Jay Bell

Hi Kirk,

A Hall of Fame scenario in martial arts brings out some sort of competition between people. Budo isn't about competition. It's about building character and developing one's self.

Over and again I've seen people that end up in "Hall's of Fame" that later turn out to be crooked and dishonest human beings. What holds true for someone that ends up in a Hall of Fame? Well, simply put...that they have an audience. So did David Koresh.

I don't want you to think that I feel everyone in the Hall of Fames are has-beens or run cults....but there is no way to define how a person is based on their students. I myself have been taken in by martial art instructors in the past...that at the time I thought were the best thing since sliced bread.

Hall of Fame ideas in my opinion, do nothing more but add to the already shattered ideas of Asian martial arts...and do even more to adapt those arts and artists to our lazy and "short cut" ideals.

I'm not sure if anyone caught it, but a few years ago I watched a martial arts "masters" program on tv. How many of these people were legitimately traditional martial artists worth their weight in dung? Two or three tops. The rest were self proclaimed masters and grandmasters of concepts that stemmed from four yellow belts. These typically end up being the people "elected" into Hall of Fames. As a side note, they also gave Westley Snipes a Godan. A Godan in WHAT? No idea...they never said. Who were these people to give him a godan? Self proclaimed masters. These types of things don't sit well with me.

It sickens me that someone can snap their fingers and end up in Hall of Fames, Masters, Grandmasters or what have you. The master instructors in the art that I study have experianced more pain, blood and sacrifice then many people care to even realize. What do they get for that? Self riteous people that proclaim themselves that good in 1/20th of the time based on their dire persuit of glory and fame ($$).

Sorry if I went on a bit of a tangent there...but this type of thing really strikes a chord in me.

Be well all,

Jay

Enjoyable post. The underlying message, to me, is that you're
saying that m.a. is infested with unethical politics

 

[tshadowchaser]

Ok from what Im seeing most of the posters dont like the idea of hall(s) of fame. None of you think a place should be created to honor people like Remey, mr.Hartman, Mr. C, Mr. Parker, MR.Urban, ETC. and heaven forbid we honor those people that traied all there lives giveing of themsleves to exand the growth of any system. These people may not be in the headlines everday so they dont count Right. Not everyone is the founder of a system and even if they are would it ot be nice for our grandchildren to be able to go somewhere and view a wallof honor,looing at photo,viedos etc. and reading the history of this men who contributed so much?
As far as getting someones name in a hall of fame then finding out they where not such a goody two shoes What the helldose that have to do with their martialarts experence. Did they teach, promoted and help the MA grow, should be what counts.
I'm kinda suprised that no one yet has had any positive ideas on how to have a good hall. Must be you all are in a negitive frame of mind lately. Most times after bitching you come up with ways to improve things
Shadow

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

I'm kinda suprised that no one yet has had any positive ideas on how to have a good hall.

This is a good point.

I too am suspicious of Halls of Fame. For one thing, there are too many. Still, this is America and it is to be expected.

What do people think of the ones of the major martial arts magazines? I used to respect Black Belt Magazine's Hall of Fame but have grown a bit leary of it--it seems to focus more on flashy players now whereas earlier on it seemed to take more hard-working teachers/practitioners who may not have been quite as well known.

Baseball uses a vote of journalists, right? The Academy Awards, a vote of a body of one's peers--what's the right way to do it for martial artists?

 

[tshadowchaser]

Votes, lets see How many friends do i have? Dont like voteing to many people vote on a persons PR promos not on wwhat they will have contributed in 10-20 or more years in the arts.
Voteing works if your reading a resume or picking between 4 or more greats but not when it comes to active participents
IMHO
Shadow

 

[tigerstorm]

I have to step back a few posts, and comment on the one where Wesley Snipes recieved rank form these supposed nobodys. I dont care whether or not wesley snipes deserves rank or not, I could give a rats butt if hes good or not. However to list a few of these stinking losers you talk so openly about:
Grandmaster Moses Powell
Grandmaster Chaka Zulu
Master Pan
Micheal Dacascos excepted an award for his father.
Grandmaster Ron Van Clief
these are just a few of these stinking nobodies, if youd liek Ill watch my tape and give you a better list!
Tigerstorm

 

[Jay Bell]

I think it'd be hard to come up with a positive way to go about a Hall of Fame for martial artists. How could we possibly determine who should be in it?

I study Bujinkan Taijutsu...and I would have some people in mind. People that most of the world has never probably heard of. Would that disqualify them? What would the inductees have to have done beyond gleem in the spotlight to be accepted?

In Black Belt Magazine, in their Hall of Fame, Stephen Hayes was voted the Instructor of the Year in 1985. In 1986, Masaaki Hatsumi (our Soke of 9 schools) was voted the "Co-instructor of the Year".

Does anyone else see a problem with that?

 

[bdparsons]

"As far as getting someones name in a hall of fame then finding out they where not such a goody two shoes What the helldose that have to do with their martialarts experence. Did they teach, promoted and help the MA grow, should be what counts. "

Sounds to me like you are saying character doesn't matter, only physical (or professional) skill. Sounds quite Clintonesque to me. sorry, I can't buy that.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[Rob_Broad]

I have no problem with a Hall of Fame, especially Black Belt Magazines hall of fame. It all boils down to personal thing if you don't like a Hall of Fame don't subscribe to a magazine that has one. I think it wrong for an organization to make a member pay to be part of the Hall of Fame.

As for Stephen Hayes getting the instructor of the year award in the 1985, he did a hell of a lot to fuel Ninjamania as well as martial arts in general, and therefore he was a boon the the art of Ninjustsu. As for Masaaki Hatsumi being Co-instructor of the yr what are you crying about that was 2 yrs running that Ninjutsu was in the Hall of Fame. Joe Lewis is definitely deserving of the award too. He has done a lot to promote the arts.

Is there a problem with Hayes being in Hall of Fame himself one yr and his instructor as C0-instructor of the year the next? NO. Masaaki Hatsumi is so well known these days because of the hard work Hayes did in promoting the art and his instructor.

 

[Jay Bell]

Is there a problem with Hayes being in Hall of Fame himself one yr and his instructor as C0-instructor of the year the next? NO. Masaaki Hatsumi is so well known these days because of the hard work Hayes did in promoting the art and his instructor.

Um..YES. It shows how little Black Belt Magazine understood of how things were done. Hatsumi sensei was the teacher, Hayes brought what little he knew back to the U.S. and shared it. Co-instructor my @ss.

It all boils down to personal thing if you don't like a Hall of Fame don't subscribe to a magazine that has one.

I don't. Thank you.

As for Masaaki Hatsumi being Co-instructor of the yr what are you crying about that was 2 yrs running that Ninjutsu was in the Hall of Fame.

I wouldn't have minded a bit if it was never in BB Hall of Fame. *sniff* :vu:

 

[GouRonin]

Joe Foster, :barf: the guy who was covicted of sexual charges against his students who were minors, was inducted into a hall of fame. Luckily a responsible person also about to go in spoke up and he was not inducted. :flushed: :toilclaw:

Just goes to show you. No matter what kind of air freshener you try to use, crap always stinks. :fart:

 

[tshadowchaser]

Lets take a mythical case.
Mas Oyama would be deserving of going into any M.A. Hall of Fame. So let say that all of a sudden we find out that he was a complet drunk and his training time in the mountian was a extendend drunk where he also induldged in "medical herbs" Would this make what he did for the arts any less?
If you look at some of the people in any Hall of Fame in any sport and you look close enough you will see plenty thats not above board. TY Cobb, Babe Ruth, Mike Tyson. pick a sport each has its heros that we see only the good PR side of.
Did the problems OJ had erase all that he did befor that on the field?
A few people in the Martial arts have been mentioned in other threads who promoted the hec out off the arts, just because they later got into legal trouble dosn't lessen the contributions.
Again only my ideas.
And no I dont knw a darn thing about how oyama kept warm in the mountians, only a example of "what if"
Shadow