Gun Defense/Disarms

[BuffaloFOI]

Hi forum,

I wanted know if FMA teaches gun disarms, if so at what level and why?

Thanks!

 

[seasoned]

Welcome to Martial Talk.
There are a number of members on MT that can and will answer your questions. If I may suggest, you could first go to the "meet and greet" threat on the home page. Scroll down to where meet and greet is and introduce yourself with a little back ground. Your responses will be greater. Thanks and enjoy. Click here.

 

[Blindside]

Hi forum,

I wanted know if FMA teaches gun disarms, if so at what level and why?

Thanks!

I don't spend alot of time on disarms, I think a more important portion of training time should be spent being able to bridge and get control of the opponents weapon hand/limb. But I do teach several disarms that I conside to be high percentage moves. I usually teach them against the knife first but then immediately show how it can be transferred to firearms.

 

[Danny T]

Not a lot on disarms. As Blindside stated, control of the weapon limb, zone and position the barrel toward the opponent. Most disarm counters are easier than the disarm.

 

[BuffaloFOI]

Thank you for responding! What student level?

 

[Blindside]

They will probably see them in the first year in my regular class. When in the first year is dependent on when I hit the topic.
Edit: As an example, I had two students who had just started with me come and attend a focus seminar on "unarmed vs. knife," they got about half of the disarms that I teach before their third class. Several of my students who had been with me for just over a year hadn't seen the material before, so it varies. I don't run a strict curriculum but rather spend a month to several months focusing on a main weapon group (knife, stick, empty hand, double stick) then go onto the next topic.

 

[rlobrecht]

I attend a TKD school, so not FMA. We teach knife and gun disarms at the black belt candidate level.

Our schools master sometimes trains with another school that takes their self defense a little more seriously. They train gun disarms with live bb guns. Basically try to disarm without getting shot by a bb. Adults only.

 

[BuffaloFOI]

Thanks for responses. I studied nihon goshin aikido and we hit techniques at a intermediate level; adult only. I

 

[DennisBreene]

I attend a TKD school, so not FMA. We teach knife and gun disarms at the black belt candidate level.

Our schools master sometimes trains with another school that takes their self defense a little more seriously. They train gun disarms with live bb guns. Basically try to disarm without getting shot by a bb. Adults only.

As an aside. Do any of you teach students about the weapons? How to recognize the type of handgun and how it operates mechanically, safety's, how a semi auto might behave vs a revolver. And do you think any of that knowledge would matter when attempting to disarm or control the weapon?

 

[BuffaloFOI]

I think that info is essential!

 

[Danny T]

As an aside. Do any of you teach students about the weapons? How to recognize the type of handgun and how it operates mechanically, safety's, how a semi auto might behave vs a revolver. And do you think any of that knowledge would matter when attempting to disarm or control the weapon?

Absolutely.

 

[Danny T]

Thank you for responding! What student level?

I teach blocks of material based upon the weapon catagory. Each block of material builds upon and intergrates with all the other blocks so one being exposed to material is depended upon what block of material is being covered. It may be single stick, knife, flexible, projectile or whatever we are working on. Each block has weapon manipulation, presentation, and footwork associated with it so even a beginner will learn at whatever level they are. I find this works very well with multi level practitioners in the same training session.

 

[geezer]

Random tangent regarding disarms and defenses against weapons ranging from guns to knives to clubs, I find that much of what we see taught is far removed from reality. Check out the two examples below.

I remember an open seminar with Rene Latosa many years back. He gave trainer knives to a mixed a group of students from various different martial arts backgrounds and had them practice a few simple stabbing and slashing movements. Then we pared up with one "attacker" armed with a trainer, and one unarmed "defender". He told the defender to try to apply any disarm they knew, and he told the attacker to basically cut the living hell out of the defender, and above all, keep from getting disarmed.

OK it was just a drill, and of course we were all holding back some to keep from hurting our partners, but still the outcome was pretty clear. The attackers won almost every time.

On another occaision, also many years ago, I was in Saginaw MI giving a WC/Escrima seminar for a friend, a former LEO who held a very high dan ranking in Hakkoryu Aikijutsu and also taught police techniques for arresting and controling suspects. He offered to show me some pistol disarming techniques. As I was not very familiar with handguns, he began by instructing me in the basic use of his 9mm auto. He removed the clip, cleared the chamber and showed me how to fire it. then he had me play the role of "mugger. I asked him if he wanted me to act "like I meant it". He said absolutely.

He asked me to stand right in front of him like you see in so many pistol disarm drills. I said, "No way. I've got the gun, I make the rules"So from about 8 feet away I pointed the gun straight at the center of his chest (largest target and all) and told him to stop and slowly get out his wallet, and toss it to me on the ground. As he began to comply by reaching for his wallet, tried to distract me with a verbal response and close the distance. I matched him step for step, keeping my range and told him to stay back and drop his f-ing wallet on the ground and slid it over to me with his foot. He tried to close distance again so I pulled the trigger. So much for another "Self defense master". If this was "for reals", he be dead.

Now if this is what relatively inexperienced people can do as "attackers", in a well lit studio working aginst experienced martial artists, how dependable are disarming techniques in real life in some back alley? Well, maybe those techniques are all you've got in a bad situation, but I'll put my money on avoiding getting into situations like that to begin with.

 

[BuffaloFOI]

I found some info thanks!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NpcDnwVm0&feature=youtube_gdata_player