Greetings from Florida

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

OK fine bad form for holding a Chinese sword though the tsuba, and blade look to be a Japanese sword you then posted another picture of someone holding an obvious katana wall hanger and said you trained in traditional bokuto sword(which sounds a little strange most people would say kenjutsu or name the actual ryuha)

Chinese sword, Japanese sword, etc. I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Until you give up the very notion of style, how can you taste my tea? You're over-analyzing, making simple matters too complex. Stop thinking so much, it's good for the mind but it cheats the body over time. In all my years, I have seen many styles. Different cultures use different swords. Sometimes they use the same swords. FMA uses katana-type swords, but they use them very differently as opposed to their JMA counterparts. Is it right then to say that FMA is wrong? That they have bad form? Or to be the devil's advocate, is it right for FMA stylists to say that JMA stylists are wrong? That they have bad form, or no true understanding of how to wield a sword? I don't think it's true, or even fair to say that. I do not believe that "this" style is better than "that" style. There are no bad martial arts. Only bad students. Until you liberate your mind from such stylized thinking, you will never have an understanding of me or my style.

 

[oaktree]

View attachment 20595

You mean like this? Lol

Showing a movie picture doesn't help your case. At best it shows you copied a movie at worse it shows a lack of proper handling of a sword. Looking at your picture and Tom cruise the kamae holding and postures look different too. To be blunt your posture with a sword looks like a MySpace picture that impresses naruto fans.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Is that you? Tom Cruise?

Tom Cruise lol

 

[Flying Crane]

Ok, a good system teaches you how to do something optimally. When it comes to a sword you don't need good skill or knowledge to be dangerous with it. Stab him with the pointy end, cut him with the edge. It's pretty intuitive. But that doesn't mean you are doing it optimally, or with any real skill, and you might be as dangerous to yourself as you are to the other guy. That style that you are prone to disparage is a methodology, used to build some genuine skill and knowledge. It isn't about moving in a stylized way. That is a different thing,and I suspect you don't really comprehend that.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Showing a movie picture doesn't help your case. At best it shows you copied a movie at worse it shows a lack of proper handling of a sword. Looking at your picture and Tom cruise the kamae holding and postures look different too. To be blunt your posture with a sword looks like a MySpace picture that impresses naruto fans.

Have you ever practiced NHB traditional Bokuto Sword Freestyle Sparring in your Kenjutsu classes? If not, if all you do is practice pre-arranged sequences with a bokken, then how do you know if your Kenjutsu is really any good? Have you ever trained without a helmet or facemask? Have you ever had your fingers broken, or felt the sting of a wooden sword across your neck? If not, then what good is it? What are you learning? How to practice safety in live combat with a real sword? What good is that against a true sword fighter, one who is not afraid to be cut or stabbed? He will run you over with your own sword. Trust me, I have seen it happen before.

 

[oaktree]

Have you ever practiced NHB traditional Bokuto Sword Freestyle Sparring in your Kenjutsu classes? If not, if all you do is practice pre-arranged sequences with a bokken, then how do you know if your Kenjutsu is really any good?

I can't practice something that doesn't exist lol. There is no such thing as nhb traditional bokuto sword freestyle sparring. If you came to our kenjutsu class and said any of this our teacher would just say please leave.
My kenjutsu is good because I practice the way my teacher tells me who learned it from his teacher and so on as the tradition is one of the oldest sword schools in Japan.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Ok, a good system teaches you how to do something optimally. When it comes to a sword you don't need good skill or knowledge to be dangerous with it. Stab him with the pointy end, cut him with the edge. It's pretty intuitive. But that doesn't mean you are doing it optimally, or with any real skill, and you might be as dangerous to yourself as you are to the other guy. That style that you are prone to disparage is a methodology, used to build some genuine skill and knowledge. It isn't about moving in a stylized way. That is a different thing,and I suspect you don't really comprehend that.

Wielding a bokuto successfully requires way more understanding than this. It's not as easy as stabbing with the pointy end and cutting with the edge. Even a Kendo practitioner knows that. Bokutos are made of wood and shaped like an actual sword. Use it improperly when sparring, and you will break your sword. So actually it requires a lot of understanding to weild a bokuto in freestyle sparring. Takes years to master. I have broken quite a few bokuto swords over the years, usually due to my own improper handling. But if I do it right, I could probably break your sword without losing mine. The bokuto I have hanging on my wall right now is one example. I broke 4 swords with that 1 sword.

 

[oaktree]

Chinese sword, Japanese sword, etc. I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Until you give up the very notion of style, how can you taste my tea? You're over-analyzing, making simple matters too complex. Stop thinking so much, it's good for the mind but it cheats the body over time. In all my years, I have seen many styles. Different cultures use different swords. Sometimes they use the same swords. FMA uses katana-type swords, but they use them very differently as opposed to their JMA counterparts. Is it right then to say that FMA is wrong? That they have bad form? Or to be the devil's advocate, is it right for FMA stylists to say that JMA stylists are wrong? That they have bad form, or no true understanding of how to wield a sword? I don't think it's true, or even fair to say that. I do not believe that "this" style is better than "that" style. There are no bad martial arts. Only bad students. Until you liberate your mind from such stylized thinking, you will never have an understanding of me or my style.

What you don't seem to understand is the very style or school has its own particular way of doing things, technique is only the surface, but each sword school has certain characteristics unique to that school. Saying the jigen Ryu and Katori Shinto Ryu are the same as Chen taijiquan jian shows lack of understanding of swordsmanship.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

What you don't seem to understand is the very style or school has its own particular way of doing things, technique is only the surface, but each sword school has certain characteristics unique to that school. Saying the jigen Ryu and Katori Shinto Ryu are the same as Chen taijiquan jian shows lack of understanding of swordsmanship.

I would have to agree with you on that. But I never made those claims. You did. Your stylized way of thinking has put false words in my mouth. I never said any of that. Not once did I say that.

 

[oaktree]

I would have to agree with you on that. But I never made those claims. You did. Your stylized way of thinking has put false words in my mouth. I never said any of that. Not once did I say that.

What false words? I spoke about how your sword handling is not good at least from a Japanese sword and Chinese jian stand point if you are doing some Korean FMA mixture ninja turtle thing well not much I can say as I don't train in Korean ninja turtle.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

What false words? I spoke about how your sword handling is not good at least from a Japanese sword and Chinese jian stand point if you are doing some Korean FMA mixture ninja turtle thing well not much I can say as I don't train in Korean ninja turtle.

"Saying the jigen Ryu and Katori Shinto Ryu are the same as Chen taijiquan jian..."

Those false words. Please don't play coy with me. I know you're not here to learn anything. You wanted this opportunity to knit-pick at me. You wanted to knit-pick at my history. You wanted to knit-pick at my style. I posted these things in order to oblige you. I acknowledge and respect your opinion of my style, but I will not tolerate any disrespect. It's obvious you are throwing subtle insults into your analogy. That's fine and dandy, but I don't have to respond to it. You stood up for Dale when he was in the wrong. He got in trouble for it, and now you're mad at me. I'm no Einstein, but I'm not a complete idiot. That's okay. I don't really feel like I have to defend myself, or my style. It speaks for itself. Some martial artists will be fond of it. Some will not. You can go ahead and do all the knit-picking you want. As for me, I'm going out back to do some training. Good luck with your stylized investigations.

 

[oaktree]

"Saying jigen Ryu and Katori Shinto Ryu are the same as Chen jian" your point was not to be caught in styles I used those three styles as a reference to point out that styles have different methods not saying you said.

You came on this site with a style you created so when you say things that do not add up or are different people question it.
I actually am not mad at you however I will comment and correct something that is an error or ask for clarification. Dale is responsible for his own actions. I was saying Dale is a no bs kinda of guy and very well known in Chinese martial arts.
Because when people Google your style name they will be brought here and frankly something are strange so we ask questions.

 

[Flying Crane]

Wielding a bokuto successfully requires way more understanding than this. It's not as easy as stabbing with the pointy end and cutting with the edge. Even a Kendo practitioner knows that. Bokutos are made of wood and shaped like an actual sword. Use it improperly when sparring, and you will break your sword. So actually it requires a lot of understanding to weild a bokuto in freestyle sparring. Takes years to master. I have broken quite a few bokuto swords over the years, usually due to my own improper handling. But if I do it right, I could probably break your sword without losing mine. The bokuto I have hanging on my wall right now is one example. I broke 4 swords with that 1 sword.

Sigh.

Ok then.

 

[oaktree]

Wielding a bokuto successfully requires way more understanding than this. It's not as easy as stabbing with the pointy end and cutting with the edge. Even a Kendo practitioner knows that. Bokutos are made of wood and shaped like an actual sword. Use it improperly when sparring, and you will break your sword. So actually it requires a lot of understanding to weild a bokuto in freestyle sparring. Takes years to master. I have broken quite a few bokuto swords over the years, usually due to my own improper handling. But if I do it right, I could probably break your sword without losing mine. The bokuto I have hanging on my wall right now is one example. I broke 4 swords with that 1 sword.

Um....if you are breaking your bokken so often you are not practicing correctly and the goal isn't to break your bokken or the other guys. I practiced with my teacher and students and visited other schools never saw someone break a bokken during practice even when we did practice pretty hard. I am thinking you are swinging it like a bat in your nhb traditional bokuto sword freestyle sparring.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Um....if you are breaking your bokken so often you are not practicing correctly and the goal isn't to break your bokken or the other guys. I practiced with my teacher and students and visited other schools never saw someone break a bokken during practice even when we did practice pretty hard. I am thinking you are swinging it like a bat in your nhb traditional bokuto sword freestyle sparring.

Bokuto, not bokken. Your words, not mine. I can see your perspective now, so allow me to clarify. Sometimes you swing it like a bat. Sometimes you don't. In motion, with no form or preset movement, no sequences and no stylized pattern, all you can do is respond to your opponent in whatever way you can. Efficiency is whatever works. Do whatever comes natural (but remember I'm also speaking to you from a WCK perspective as well). The bokutos I broke over the years were the result of incorrect handling. I did say that already, no need to emphasize. I did say the last 4 bokuto swords I broke were broken by my 1 bokuto hanging on the wall. That's at least some testimony to at least one skill I have learned, if nothing else. But wooden swords are not the only thing my bokutos have broken over the years. However, no serious or life-threatening injuries have ever occured during my sparring sessions (not in the last 10 years since Wumingquan's foundation) and actually, due to our persistent training and dedication, we have really received less and less injuries over the years, through better handling and natural learning from pain. I should also probably mention that bokuto freestyle sparring isn't really a primary core teaching or even a fundamental part of Wumingquan, nor do we train with weapons. This photos are just for demonstration. Btw, the man holding the katana above his head. That is GM Santella, and I'm not sure what you see wrong with his posture, or with mine.

 

[oaktree]

A bokken or bokuto often used interchanging I guess more technical bokuto may be used though in Japan i have heard both and my teacher used bokken

 

[oaktree]

What ryuha swings the sword like a bat? Did your teacher teach you this?!
GM Santella looks like a guy who studied Karate and thought swords are cool let me add my karate stance and hold the sword with a baseball grip.
Let me explain what waza teaches you in swordsmanship because you think you can just grab a bokken and start having sword battles. The waza in some cases teaches you how to handle certain attacks and defense, how to develop the correct footwork, the correct distancing, and timing which was developed by people who actually fought with swords on the battlefield there is a lot going on then what appears in a waza and a lot of secrets and henka that only students are shown.
I have not broken mine yet had mine for years but then again I do not slam mine like a baseball bat.

 

[BuckerooBonzai]

Oh dear God, this is becoming another train wreck. So painful! WHY do I keep reading these threads???

 

[CB Jones]

Oh dear God, this is becoming another train wreck. So painful! WHY do I keep reading these threads???

because who doesn't like a good train wreck

 

[oaktree]

Apparently there already exist a wumingquan style!