Grandmaster?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by JadeDragon, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. JadeDragon

    JadeDragon Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    What do you think qualifies someone to be a Grandmaster?
     
  2. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Grand...as in grandfather. A father who's offspring has also become a father.
    Thus a master who's students have also become masters.
    The hard part is to define master...good luck with that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88
    For one not calling himself/herself that
     
  4. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    213
    If the title has been awarded by their organisation, then why is using it any different than using 'doctor'?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Ok point taken

    I meant more that few Grandmasters refer to themselves as such ...students may and organisations may but they themselves in my view do not
     
  6. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indonesia
    For fairly conduct, the title should not be assigned by oneself, but as acknowledgement from others.

    As for the system i currently in, we assigned it to the person that most advanced/knowledged in our current system, so it simple, challenge him/her, if you can beat him/her regardless of age you can become the grandmaster.

    Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk
     
  7. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88
    I wouldn't agree that beating a Grandmaster makes you a Grandmaster .
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indonesia
    That is why i said it only in my system.
    Of course beating it in accordance of the system.
    For example in taichi, i might be wrong here, to gauge the understanding of the system is by sparring in push hand / tui sao, so in the system i currently in, if the student able to draw in tui sao against the master, than he is equal to the master.
    But until now, that was never happened, so for the last two or three grandmaster generation, there was gap in knowledge, like the last one has over 20+ year knowledge gap with the late one, so for every generation, there was regression every time a grandmaster passed away.

    Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk
     
  9. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88

    Interesting you say regression ... maybe it just my reading of it but if that is the case then things are being lost or overlooked somewhere or they are not being passed on properly. ofcourse no two people can be compared however I would say imho that when any person is appointed as the head of a system/art/school of arts they should be preparing the successor well in advance as they themselves were as it imo highly unlikely that one day out of the blue they are named as such
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    28,334
    Likes Received:
    3,743
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Ego and arrogance.

    There are no Grandmasters in China....only Shifu.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Unfortunately it is, the last one had been groomed in intensive training since the late one was appointed as the gm by his gm in the death bed.
    The late gm also not yet on par with his last gm in understanding the system.
    When this late gm passed away its been about tens of year intensive training, but still there was gap in understanding.
    So it was suspect in something lost, but there are hope that through time every new generation gm will reach the near understanding level of the late one.
    So its more in comprehension of the passed knowledge, not in the knowledge itself.


    Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk
     
  12. MI_martialist

    MI_martialist Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Because Doctor has standards that are universally recognized and is a DEGREE that one earns. It is very different.
     
  13. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    88
    I get your point, however again I'd say not all degrees are universally recognized by any means
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    213
    A doctor of physics is called doctor, I wouldn't ask his advice on an ingrown toenail.

    A doctor of medicine is called doctor, I wouldn't ask him about string theory.

    Likewise, I wouldn't ask a chess grand master for advice on my side kick.

    Neither term is universal and is only recognised within it's own context...

    A group of people got together and decided upon the academic achievements required to confer the title 'doctor', it wasn't handed down by a higher power. Likewise, a group of people got together and decided upon the requirements to confer the title 'grand master'.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Oh, also...

    Do I take it you're suggesting that nobody earns the grand master title?
     
  16. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    383
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Australia
    Everyone shall now refer to me as Grandmaster, from now on.


    I called dibs!
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  17. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Grand master of what?
     
  18. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    383
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Australia
    Nah just Grandmaster will do. Covers all bases.

    XD
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Trophy Points:
    253
    I hate that term and refuse to use it. I don't see the point of it apart from ego flashing.
     
  20. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    406
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    In KKW Taekwondo a Grand Master rank can be achieved at 7th or 8th degree black belt (I believe). Which means you must have been a black belt for a minimum of 21-28 years, probably more if you didn't test every time you were able to. If you assume Master at 5th degree and GM at 8th degree, that means 10 years to become a Master, and another 18 years after that to be a GM. As someone who is 30 years old and going for 3rd Dan next month, at a minimum I would be 55 years old before qualifying to be a grand master. I'd be old enough to be a grandfather (although probably won't be) and I would have spent more than half my life doing Taekwondo.

    I think it depends on the situation. In Taekwondo, you wouldn't call yourself that unless you've earned the appropriate rank. At which point I don't see the problem with demanding people call you by the title the organization has bestowed upon you. I call my Master "Master" and I tell my students NOT to call me Master because I haven't earned it yet. (I say "I'm mister, I'm not a master yet...although I like the sound of that!"). When I have earned the title, you bet I'm going to insist on my students calling me Master.

    However, if someone has extensive compiled experience in martial arts and creates their own art or system, can they not name themselves Grandmaster of their new system?
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page