Got my butt whopped by a Kickboxing champion until I started jabbing him

Discussion in 'Boxing/Kickboxing' started by Axiom, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    3,375
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Lots of BJJ guys are wearing them now for no-gi. I'm just not willing to spend the money unless prices come down.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,120
    Likes Received:
    3,244
    Trophy Points:
    308
    You can get them cheap on eBay. Skins you of course have to take out a mortgage for.
     
  3. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Netherlands
    With the attitude you are displaying here I'm guessing that you will get your butt "whopped" many more times !
    :)
     
  4. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    25,318
    Likes Received:
    3,870
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    Well it might be more upset about the fit, tailoring made for the female form doesn't suit the male form. :D still I'm sure he'll make a good soprano ( or castrato)
     
  5. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    379
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Depends on the gym, the trainer and the fighter. You have certain guys like Diaz brothers who got their start in BJJ and then trained in boxing to add to their game and were very successful about it. There are certain gyms like Straight Blast Gym under Matt Thorton who do BJJ/Boxing as well.

    If you look at the main MMA gyms in the US, then you will usually find the main mix to be BJJ/Wrestling/Muay Thai. Again, depending on the gym that mix will vary and the base art will vary depending on the head coaches emphasis. For example, is it a striking emphasis gym that supplements with grappling or vice versa.
     
  6. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    379
    Trophy Points:
    143
    You do realize that even in "boxing" different trainers teach the basic punches a little bit different right? For example, some teach the jab as a vertical punch meant to slide through the opponent's guard, others will teach it with the twist to try and tear skin with your gloves. Others don't care. You realize that there are also different VERSIONS of the basic jab, like the "left jolt" that Dempsey taught or using the arm only for a "speed jab"?

    When it comes to hook punches, some teach a vertical fist configuration when landing and others a horizontal landing with the palm down. Then you get into different distances for the hook punch. Purists will say that the only true "hook punch" has the elbow bent at 90 degrees or tighter and is only used close in (elbow range). Others will open up the elbow and use it from a distance, what the purists would call a roundhouse "swing". Some boxing trainers say that there is no rear hand hook punch and that it is a swing and the only true hook punch is done with the lead hand. Then we get into traditional martial arts and a hook punch and you have various methods of throwing it properly as well, look at how Isshin-Ryu throws it in comparision to a kung fu style.

    So, to say that Bas Rutten throws it "wrong" is ignorant of the many CORRECT ways of throwing a proper hook punch based on the style and the environment it is being used for.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    3,375
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Exactly. There are some differences between optimal application of boxing in a boxing match vs a MMA match however the stylistic variation within the ranks of pro boxers is just about as great as the variation between a "typical" boxing style and a "typical" boxing for MMA style. Some approaches to boxing need very little tweaking to work for MMA, others need more.
     
  8. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    353
    Location:
    In the dojo
    Curiosity question...

    Why train both BJJ and wrestling? I understand a wrestler training BJJ (or judo) to add submission and chokes, but why would a BJJer (or judoka) train wrestling?

    For the throws?

    I've got a lot of wrestling experience. I'd dabble in BJJ or judo for chokes and submission for more effective (imo) "street defense." But if I had significant experience in BJJ or judo, I wouldn't be looking for wrestling to gain a street defense edge.

    I don't have any experience with BJJ or judo, aside from a few friends who I haven't talked to in a while, so I'm probably missing something.
     
  9. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    3,375
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Wrestlers typically have better no-gi takedowns, takedown defense, stand ups, scrambles, and mat returns than an equivalently experienced BJJ practitioner. (They're also usually better conditioned, but that's more of a training culture thing.)

    To my mind, Judo, BJJ, Sombo, and wrestling are all just different facets of the same gem. They overlap a lot, but each has areas of specialization that they excel in.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,120
    Likes Received:
    3,244
    Trophy Points:
    308
    For better situational immersion.
     
  11. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    1,736
    Trophy Points:
    353
    Location:
    In the dojo
    Thanks, Tony. That makes sense.

    I agree that they're "all just different facets of the same gem" with strengths in different areas. I feel pretty confident in the stuff you mentioned about wrestling. Avoiding single and double leg takedowns was by far my strongest area, followed by throws. I haven't been on the mat in about 3 years now and miss it a bit. Funny thing I always found is it's like riding a bike - once I get back on the mat after a long hiatus, it's like I never left. Well, except for the conditioning. That feels like it'll never come back no matter what I do.

    I'd love to learn some basic submissions and chokes, but there's only so much time in the day, and once I started I wouldn't be able to say "that's good enough" and walk away. I tend to go too deep before I realize it.
     
  12. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    379
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Tony pretty much covered it, but in the US most kids are exposed to wrestling through the school system so you have an excellent base already. It is much easier to add in the submissions of BJJ from this base. The other factor was wrestlers started to dominate in the UFC with their base and adding the "ground and pound" strategy to it. They knew how to get position and scramble and then pound out their opponent.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    15,124
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I picked some up as part of a no-gi set at BJJ HQ this past week. The entire set (rash guard, shorts, leggings) was $45. If I add a cape, I'll look like a very low-budget superhero.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,781
    Likes Received:
    3,375
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Great deal! Usually $45 would cover just one item in that set.
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    15,124
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Yeah, that's why I had to have it. You know, for all that no-gi BJJ training I do.
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,120
    Likes Received:
    3,244
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Yeah. Right. For the no gi huh?

     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    25,318
    Likes Received:
    3,870
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    Did you know you can buy tattoo 'sleeves' now that you can put on to make it look like you have had your arms tattooed? So now you can look hard! All you need to intimidate people in the gym, tattoo sleeve, a UFC rash guard and lycra tights to show your assets off ( with groin guard in of course).
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Had another gym war with the kickboxer. Started well this time and threw a roundhouse kick clean on his stomach as hard as I could. But things went downhill from here. His dominance was mostly an initiave thing, but I'm trying to get used to his level of sparring intensity.

    The jab out didn't work this time, for some reason. It only made it more difficult to transition and actually lost time rather than won, with my jab out. Also exposed the other side of my jaw which he banged with a full swing roundhouse kick. He claimed that he was going sem contanct, simply because full contact leads to warnings, and he took that hypotethical warning (.....):
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    25,318
    Likes Received:
    3,870
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England

    And? what do you want us to say? You need to train more and say less.
     
  20. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    379
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Or maybe understand that when people spar they have different goals than to "always win" and that other guy may have been trying some new things due to his experience and the other persons lack of skill.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page