got anything useful for these situations?

Discussion in 'Women of the Martial Arts (Women Martial Artists)' started by aedrasteia, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, they would force a bottle or someone other object up your rear. 'Sexual assault' is rarely about sex and all about power and humiliating the victim. When it is about sex it's rarely the sort you immediately think of.
    19 Men Share Stories of Being Raped By A Woman (NSFW)
     
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  2. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    While I would never make light of any sort of real assault on women, or men for that matter, I just can't take this article seriously. This thing reads more like leftist anti Trump 3rd wave feminist rhetoric than any kind of actual journalism, which only serves to further polarize people. My eyes literally glazed over reading it.

    As for women's self defense, or even general self defense as an industry; do you really think the world needs more? The 'self defense' industry tends to sell fear rather than any sort of applicable skills.
     
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  3. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    Well yes things are indeed complicated, this present is that people are hyper sensative about things, i lot of which fall considerably below serious " sexual assault and if you class all things the same then it diluted the serius stuff, to some exstent people have to toughen up and stop bleating on about nothing much at all. Ive been sexualy assaulted on numerous accations by both men and particulary women,

    I lost my cherRy to my mates mum, who was really hot , as a very young man, something for which im eternally greatful for, the number if women that think its ok grind against me or hold my bottomme when slow dancing is considerable, only supased by the number that think its ok to just walk up and rub my shaved head, for the thrill it gives them, none of which has caused me to join the me to cause.

    And for sexual harrassment try working as the only male in a factory if women, dear god their lewd.

    As for the rest, il say what i said to my sister as she turned 16,

    Dont get so drunk you dont wpknow where you are and which way is home.

    Dont put your well being on thE hands of mates who just might forget you exist,

    Alway have the taxi far home, always.

    If your feeling uncomtable LEAVE.

    Only ugly girls dont get cat calls,

    DO NOT,get in cars or even worsr hotel rooms with people you dont know and trust implicitly,

    And finslly if the above doesnt work, report the mattet to your big brother who will kick their heads in
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 9:13 AM
  4. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Could be worse, could be a cactus...
     
  5. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Oddly and frustratingly, I have to agree with this...

    The people who want prosecutions and the like for things like whistles, comments on being attractive and (the extremely stupid) "stare raping" are doing way more harm than good and quite honestly belittling people who are victims of actual assault.

    Kind of like how it's possible to pursue an assault prosecution for someone holding your arm...
     
  6. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I would agree with this on GP. However, I don't know the type of students he had, the type of employer he had, and if he feared retaliation if he couldn't think of a way to control their behavior without retaliation.
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You start from day one with a demeanor that shows you brook no nonsense, saves a lot of bother. always start strict and you can always ease off but if you start with an attitude that allows students to mess around you can't regain the upper hand.

    Yes and no. There are some, not that I've seen them in the UK yet though, who think that way but there's also the problem of having to put up with prolonged small harassments every day. There's the touching of your bum on public transport, the brushing of hands across your breasts, all 'accidental' of course, there's the hand on the shoulder at work done while you are sitting and they are standing over you, the hand just that bit too far down, if you say anything you are looked at as if you are being silly, of course he wasn't trying to cop a feel! There's the standing too close to you on buses, trains, lifts and escalators with the man appearing to fidget but is actually rubbing himself up against you. Then there's the whistling and cat calling, the comments that are sexually suggestive etc etc etc. Girls and young women have this day in day out, they aren't over reacting, most say nothing because it causes more bother than staying silent. men think women want to be told they are attractive, well yes in the right context and by the right person not by stranger or workmates. It is not a compliment when a random man tells you, you are attractive, it's creepy. Being whistled at by a bunch of men you don't know is actually scary as it is when they shout things at you as you walk down the street, don't underestimate the effect it can have on a young girl. Being started at, with a random man looking you up and down licking his lips is horrible, why would any one think it's a compliment, it's scary, creepy and very wrong.

    Often men can't or won't see these things as problem but my goodness they are quick to complain if it's done to them by gay man!
    it seems too that men are believed years after sexual abuse by another male such as the clergy cases we are seeing but a woman reports it years after 'oh no she's after the money'. :rolleyes:

    Shocking video shows woman being groped on Tube
     
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  8. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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  9. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I've had most of the "little" things (pinching, touching, comments, etc.) done by gay men before, and truthfully it didn't bother me in the slightest.

    If anything it was confusing what they saw in me - I never considered myself pretty enough for that sort of behavior.

    It'd be an entirely different situation if my 9 year old son was the object of affection...
     
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  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    So women should be fine with it? We are supposed to just be happy that someone finds us attractive enough to do these things?
    this is written by a man before anyone complains about 'yet another over sensitive woman'
    Man Explains Women’s Rage Using A Brutal Analogy So All Men Can Understand It
     
  11. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    No, I didn't say they should be fine with it.

    Especially if it becomes harassing behaviour.

    But there are levels and there is context.

    Having your bum pinched or stroked in a club isn't anywhere near the same as getting it daily at work. Having someone whistle at you from 30 feet in the air is nothing like a coworker constantly making lewd comments.

    One time I had advances made was in a gay bar - the only place in town that wasn't packed with football on TV (world cup day) and it was raining. A couple of guys making comments was a small price to pay for a relaxing drink on a comfy sofa with some 70s disco. Honestly, where's the harm?

    Oh, and the comparison made in that link is terrible - I've been kicked in the nuts and it's in no way comparable to a bloke grabbing my bum...
     
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  12. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    It's serious, but it's hardly the end of the world - especially if it's an isolated event.




    Edit: not that this makes it right or acceptable...
     
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  13. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Black Belt

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    Harassment is not okay. Any physical extension to harassment quickly approaches assault. It is possible for straight or gay men or women to make an error in judgement regarding someone's interest or openness to their attention, but that's not what we're talking about here, is it? This is not difficult to understand.

    I am straight man a few years into my 3rd decade of marriage and I live in a very LGBTQ+ friendly city in the US and conversely know people with a variety of orientations. As a musician, I've worked in gay bars and an annual month long holiday drag show for several years in a row (not in drag). I've never been harassed, touched or disrespected in any way by that community. If I had been, I would have taken offense to it, not because of our orientation difference, but because it would have been an unwelcome, inappropriate, and presumptuous intrusion. Creeps and predators do this sort of thing. Good people do not, regardless of gender or orientation.

    It is wrong. It's not nuanced. It is wrong and this is not an issue that the world should have trouble agreeing on.

    There will always be creeps and predators. There's nothing we can do about that. The rest of us can (someday) unify around our opposition to it which will hamper their ability to operate. I don't think that unification is imminent, which makes me sick at my stomach. It's unfathomable to me that this is even something that there is more than one point of view on, but here we are. It's unfathomable to me that there are women (lots of women) who are supporting and protecting this culture. Even more perverted to me that they tend to be the "family values" set. I can't get my brain around it.

    To the original OP question: as an instructor, maybe I can help a few individuals find their own confidence, power, and strength. Maybe. It seems like a small contribution to a very large problem, but I'm at a loss on how to get to the actual root cause on a societal scale.
     
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  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You assume this happens just once in a while despite my saying this is a daily thing? That is happens on the Tube/bus to work, then at work ( especially is you are in a service job such as waiting on), then it happens in the pub/club later. Let me repeat this, these are things that will happen every day, one or the other, many times all of it. Did you think women were just complaining about something that happens once in a blue moon? At least one of those things will happen every day to a woman.

    You think a woman shouldn't complain because a man touches her bum? That it's fine, would you tell young girls that? 'Oh getting your bum touched doesn't mean anything.' We tell children that people shouldn't touch them anywhere that is covered by a swimming costume to prevent child sexual abuse but you are saying that girls and women shouldn't worry about having an intimate part of their body touched by a random stranger! Who are you to tell me that if someone touches me inappropriately it isn't upsetting. who are you to tell me that being shouted at by a bunch of men isn't creepy or scary?


    This! I wish I could click on 'love this post' and 'agree' rather than just like it.
     
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh dear lord, you actually either didn't read the article or have no idea. Men gang raped for 11 hours every day for three years and it's only serious, not the end of the world. Men who died from being repeatedly raped, men whose health is destroyed by being raped, whose wives have left them, who cannot sit down despite medical treatment.
    Even an isolated incident ( and male rape IS NOT an isolated incident) will destroy a life. You know, I can't believe you wrote that. I'm actually shocked.

    Have you actually any idea what being raped is like for anyone?
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Not to all women it doesn't.

    You've used a pretty broad brush there.

    Entirely depends on context.

    A waitress gets grabbed by a customer, or an office worker gets groped by a coworker - definitely complain.

    Again, context - and also content. What is being shouted and how makes a difference.

    A couple of stereotypical builders calling out "phwoar, she's a bit of alright" is hardly the same as a group of guys cornering someone and giving graphic descriptions of what they'd like to do.

    Putting them in the same category is delusional.

    That's not an instance of rape, that's systematic and organised torture.

    That happens to women too, as I'm sure you're aware. It certainly doesn't mean that's the methodology for every rape.

    Can destroy a life, not will.

    It's far from a certainty.

    Male rape isn't always a gang thing, it's not always continuous or repetitive - it is by very definition an isolated event in those cases.

    If one guy raping another guy once isn't an isolated incident then I obviously need a new dictionary.
     
  17. Rat

    Rat Blue Belt

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    Can you elaborate with what you mean? Do you mean physical or mental? (may have been posted but i glossed over the thread)
     
  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    How do you know? Trust me I know much better than you what happens.


    No, you don't get to do this, you don't get to decide what the context is, you don't get to say, as a man, that women shouldn't be bothered by this because it's all in the context. You don't get to decide what upsets women and what doesn't. How do you know what a young woman feels when she's shouted at by builders?

    You also don't get to decide 'what sort of rape' is just an inconvenience and which isn't.

    I know what girls and young woman think and feel because we asked them and they told us. We've been asking since 2009 and following up with what they tell us. The surveys are used by successive governments and research establishments for their veracity. That's in the UK but we also have the views of over 10 million girls all around the world.
    Girlguiding Advocate Panel speaks out: End sexual harassment of girls and young women and empower girls to take action
    "
    • Half of girls aged 11 – 21 (50%) have experienced sexual harassment on the streets with 44% changing their behaviour to avoid this
    • 17% of girls aged 13 – 21 have experienced unwanted touching on public transport with 31% changing their behaviour to avoid this
    • 41% of girls aged 18-21 experience unwanted touching at a nightclub with 51% reporting they have changed their behaviour to avoid this
    • As part of the report one girl aged 13 – 16 said: “Some people are ashamed to open up about being harassed and they need to know that it isn’t their fault.”
    • Another aged 7-21 said: “If women feel safe in their environment they will feel freer to express themselves – say, do, wear what they want!”
    • When asked what the three most important ways to improve girls' and women's lives are, 50% of young girls aged 7-10 included making sure that girls are safe. "

    • Campaign to end sexual harassment in schools
    The Girl Guiding Advocates are Guides not adult leaders.

    Julia Peters, a Girlguiding Young Spokeswoman, said:
    ITV Tonight’s investigation contains shocking footage and stories, but to me it is not surprising. As a 22-year-old woman, harassment is an almost daily experience for me, from being catcalled to unwanted touching, just because I am female. And this experience starts young and in schools.

    Our Girls’ Attitudes Survey found 75% of 11 to 21 year olds said that anxiety about experiencing sexual harassment negatively affects their lives in some way. This leads to girls altering their behavior, perhaps by not wearing what they’d like to, not putting their hand up in class or walking a different way home, in order to avoid being harassed. And harassment is just one part of how girls see women being treated differently to men in society.

    Girls and women have the right to be safe wherever they are. Sadly this isn’t currently the case, but it is encouraging to see more and more people speaking up about the need to tackle sexual harassment because at Girlguiding we’ve been campaigning for change on this for several years.

    Julia is a Young Leader and represents Girlguiding on the British Youth Council.

    From this years Girl Guiding survey
    The percentage of girls and young women feeling unsafe outside is alarmingly high. More than half of those aged 13 to 21 have felt unsafe walking home alone, experienced harassment or know someone who has, and nearly half feel unsafe using public transport.
    Increasing numbers of girls have experienced unkind, threatening and negative behaviour online compared to five years ago. With more channels to abuse, sadly we weren’t surprised by these figures. But girls’ response to harassment is much more robust than it used to be, which is positive. Girls are less likely to ignore abuse and report it more, as well as delete posts. We’re pleased to see a mainly positive response from girls in addressing such unacceptable behaviour.
    https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/glob...and-campaigns/girls-attitudes-survey-2018.pdf


    Do not presume to tell me that you know what life is like for women, do not presume to tell me that a pat on the backside is nothing or that builders shouting 'compliments' is acceptable. IT IS NOT.

    Frankly your blasé attitude to rape, to touching inappropriately and what you think women's lives is like makes me extremely sad. I find it surprising that you can shake off being kicked in the testicles repeatedly as being nothing. You also didn't get the context the male writer was giving. You assume because you think you don't do anything to women that they are making it up or exaggerating, because you don't see it ( or want to see it) it doesn't exist and this silly women are making a fuss about a man touching them when they should be bloody grateful. it's somewhat akin to you telling a woman in labour it can't hurt that much because you can't feel the pain.

    I'm not accusing you of being one of those men who does this to women but I do say that if you don't think there's a problem then you are part of the problem.

    When I was in the RAF I worked in Whitehall, I lived at RAF Uxbridge and travelled by Tube to work with fellow service people men and women, we were in civvies not uniform. Every single journey someone tried to touch the females, it was rush hour, standing room only. we were jostled, rubbed up against and touched, every single time. We'd get shouted at by taxi drivers and workmen. Quite often if we came back late on the Tube we'd be harassed by men unless we had another man with us. I've had kerb crawlers trying to pick me up as I was walking from the Tube station to the camp. At work senior civil servants would do everything I described to you, some servicemen did too. I don't think I need to go on. If we caught the hand trying to grope, we'd pinch it or dig our nails in, often it was hard to know who it was though so practised were these gropers. all that has changed is that women are less likely to suffer in silence but then they get people like you trying to make it seem inconsequential and trying to make them seem as if they are just whinging. It's all rather sickening.
     
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  19. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    LOL that article is ridiculous. It basically states all men are rapists, or want to be. Pure garbage.
     
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  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Sorry that I have used my 1st "Disagree" button on you. If I don't feel so strongly on this, I may never use that button.

    This kind of women are good and men are bad attitude bother me a lot.

    What do you mean "Men up"? Is there such thing as "Women up"?

    What's the difference between "A woman pinches a guy's butts" vs. "A guy pinches a girl's butts"? Sex assault go both ways.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 3:06 PM
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