Good day at the gym...finished up on the bag!

Discussion in 'Members in Motion' started by skyeisonfire, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. skyeisonfire

    skyeisonfire Green Belt

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    I had a good day doing chest/back workout at the gym. I decided to sweat it out on the bag at home. It has been a while since I used my bag. I could only put in 25% effort both because my back is still healing and the bag makes too much commotion and I don't want the upstairs neighbors to complain. all-in-all, I had a good time back on the bag. Wish I could go all out though. But, in time. The bag work out felt good tough.
     
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  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Thumbs up for hitting the bag without gloves. I don't see that too often these days.
    Thumbs up and respects for the uppercuts on the bag. That's probably the most difficult punch to do on a bag (without gloves).
     
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  3. skyeisonfire

    skyeisonfire Green Belt

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    Thank you! My first WC teacher always stressed the importance of hand/body conditioning. Besides, I'm more likely to carry a handgun around than a set of boxing gloves lol.

    Yeah, the uppercut is difficult because the bag lacks a jawline hehe!
     
  4. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    You know, my entire life in MA I never used gloves on a bag, Had some folks talk me into getting a pair of MMA fingerless gloves, so I worked with those briefly and my knuckles were hurting a lot. Then one day not to long ago, when I started training JKD, briefly, for the second time. I was convinced by a few people that I needed to use boxing gloves to train, so I got a pair and started training. And not to long after that I hurt my wrist because the angles were all wrong do to extension the gloves gave my fist.

    I went back to training without gloves
     
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  5. skyeisonfire

    skyeisonfire Green Belt

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    Yeah, gloves are too restricting. One important thing is if you were trained in WC, lop sau and other drills, your hands need the ability to grasps the opponent's arms briefly enough to transition to another position. It's just weird for me to strike with gloves.
     
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  6. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Train just abut any traditional Chinese martial art you need to be able to grasp the opponent. And when I started using a heavy bag, bag in the stone age, I was training Japanese Jujutsu so grabbing someone was necessary, so gloves where never even a thought. But then, way back then I did not know any MAists that used glove on a heavy bag
     
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  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    My first Jow Ga class where I live now was a shocked to me. I went up to the heavy bag to get a little punching workout after the class. The other students said "Hey you need gloves so you won't hurt your hand." I was shocked because in my previous school we always were taught to not use gloves for the heavy bag. I just thought that was the norm, for martial arts. Then I learned the truth lol.
     
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  8. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    In the early 70s and even into the late 70s it was the norm. My first TKD class was in about 1976, Mr Kim had a heavy bag, we punched and kicked it a lot.... there were not any gloves at all in the school and no one used them either. Even my first shifu in 1991, we were hitting striking pads and there was no mention by him of gloves of any sort. However, it was there I first heard of MAist using gloves, there were some TKD folks and a couple American Kenpo folks in the class who used gloves in their styles. All I heard in my head when I found this out was Mr Kim, when asked about protective gear...first he laughed and then said "There is no padding in a fight"
     
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  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I wonder what memorable comments will come out of the mouths of the next generation of teachers.
     
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  10. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Could be interesting....or disappointing


    and at this point @skyeisonfire is thinking.... what a couple of old MA Fogies :D
     
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  11. skyeisonfire

    skyeisonfire Green Belt

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    Haha! I'm not a spring chicken myself!
     
  12. skyeisonfire

    skyeisonfire Green Belt

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    I've heard so many comments from people "you gonna break your hands" sorry, you punch enough hard things for a long time, your bones will adjust. If you punch walls and other hard objects, then someone's jaw won't be an issue. I've had other MA people keep telling me I'm punching wrong and will hurt myself. In WC, we were taught to strike with the bottom 3 knuckles by punching wall bags for many, many hours. I adapted by punching flat with the surface I'm striking with all my knuckles. Been doing it that way for 3 years. My knuckles will be bloodied long before I hurt the bones striking the face.
     
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    I use to hit punch walls for training when I trained Long Fist

    Actually I started having some issues with my hands several years ago, then I trained the Chinese Police version of Sanda for a bit. Training striking was all palm strikes and hitting trees and walls. I am not recommending this as a way to deal with stiffness in the hands, but hitting the trees really fixed my issues in my hands. Another interesting note, we hit hard, but there was a specific sound you were listening for. If you heard that sound, you never hurt your hand.
     
  14. skyeisonfire

    skyeisonfire Green Belt

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    Depending on what I'm hitting, is the amount of force to apply. I try not hitting harder than what I feel is necessary to avoid injuries (been injured more times than I dreamed since restarting MA). Same for if I was going to strike another human being in the face, I would have to judge how much force is necessary and why I'm striking that person i.e. threat level.

    My knuckles are conditioned enough to put a hurting on someone without hurting me. Not trying to be boastful, but this is what I'm training for every time. That's why I've adopted to a simple mindset when it comes to MA. I train to come in hard and fast and end the threat as soon as possible.
     
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  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    My approach is similar. I use different parts of my fist to strike different areas of the head. The skull isn't a big issue for me. A change of striking service to me is like a 3-6 degree change in the angle of my fist. Targeted punches (specific areas on the head) reduced the risk of me injuring myself.

    I'm always puzzled when I hear MA artists say. "Don't hit the head with your fist because you may hit the forehead". Then I think.. "Why would I punch someone in the forehead?" These guys have 30 + years of martial arts experience and can't target a punch? I wonder if training with gloves on is the reason why they can't target anything. They have gloves and think Yep. just hit anywhere on the head.
     
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  16. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    The hand is essentially a bag of marbles. Very breakable ones. If your hand isn't wrapped, hitting hard targets with a fist is a pretty bad idea.
     
  17. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    So...your not in the gym, the guan, the kwoon, the dojo, and you end up in a fight outside of that environment....do you ask the other guy to wait so you can wrap your hands, or just hit him and break your hand because you never conditioned it to hit without wraps and/or gloves..... just wondering
     
  18. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    Pending what the bag is stuffed with i dont think you can or should go 100% effort on a heavy bag without gloves on. At least you will only mess up once if you dont wear gloves as it will immediately hurt which will encourage you not to do it again. :p

    (in other words, so long as you think about what you are doing, it mitigates some issues)

    I made that mistake once, never again, pahahah. (i didnt break anything nor go full power though, but i read something later on and went "yeah id rather not risk it". I did it like your meant to punch those wall bags or padded walls)
     
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    You don't start at full power. You train, you condition and you build up, without wraps and/or gloves. Use to be required to palm strike trees and walls training sanda, without gloves. never hurt my hands, or wrists this way and as a matter of fact when I started training sanda it actually made my hands and wrists feel better, but I had a teacher that trained me how to do it. But then I have had many teachers over the years that trained me how to train striking properly. The absolute only time I have hurt my hands or wrist was wearing gloves using a heavy bad. Gloves and wraps were not even part of the MA equation in the early 70s, my old TKD teacher laughed at the idea, and I never heard gloves seriously mentioned in an MA class until the early 90s, and even then we did not go ot and buy them

    Now I am old, crotchety and stuck in my ways, and if someone wants to wrap and glove up go for it, but I still maintain, in this world where everyone and their brother is saying MA doesn't really work (think about that one for a minute), do you ask the other guy that just attacked you to give you a minute while you wrap your hands and put on gloves, or since you never trained without them, or do you put all you have into that first punch, break your hand and hope you only needed to hit him once.
     
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  20. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    For starters, there are many weapons besides the fist.

    Secondly, if you choose to use your fists, it is still a bad idea to aim for hard targets, because the hand is a fragile sack of tiny weak bones.

    Hitting trees or walls may condition your skin, nerves, and even thicken up the knuckles from microfractures, but it also causes cumulative damage, with an ever present risk of permanent damage.

    Good luck playing the piano when you are 50. I recently saw a documentary about some old-school karate Masters in Okinawa, clubs for hands but not good for much else. Hands mostly fused together from all the fractures.

    Hitting bare knuckle with maximum effectiveness without injury is more a matter of form and technique than surface or impact conditioning, which comes at a greater cost/benifit ratio by hitting softer targets like heavy bags (with or without hand protection) than from bashing your hand on unyielding surfaces.
     

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