GM JI Han Jae

[Kong Soo Do]

Hey Sean, I wouldn't worry about it. To me, the comments you are responding to come from people who have not yet come to the realization that if it weren't for GM Ji, they would have never heard of hapkido and therefore would not be practicing it today.

I don't think this is quite an accurate statement. I would say that Grandmaster Bong Soo Han would better fit this designation, particularly with his work on the Billy Jack films which put Hapkido before the American/Western audience.

 

[puunui]

I don't think this is quite an accurate statement. I would say that Grandmaster Bong Soo Han would better fit this designation, particularly with his work on the Billy Jack films which put Hapkido before the American/Western audience.

And GM Ji was GM Han's teacher from white belt, and GM Han received all his hapkido rank from GM Ji.

 

[mastercole]

Originally Posted by Kong Soo Do
I don't think this is quite an accurate statement. I would say that Grandmaster Bong Soo Han would better fit this designation, particularly with his work on the Billy Jack films which put Hapkido before the American/Western audience.

And GM Ji was GM Han's teacher from white belt, and GM Han received all his hapkido rank from GM Ji.

 

[puunui]

I mean really, where do people think those hapkido kicks in Billy Jack came from, GM CHOI Yong Sul? And GM Han's best selling Hapkido book from ohara features mostly kicking techniques. GM Ji or his direct students also taught the Hong Kong movie actors and actresses hapkido, especially hapkido kicking, which were featured in those movies.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

And GM Ji was GM Han's teacher from white belt, and GM Han received all his hapkido rank from GM Ji.

Your statement isn't in context with the previous statement that you made Glenn. Your previous statement was;

Hey Sean, I wouldn't worry about it. To me, the comments you are responding to come from people who have not yet come to the realization that if it weren't for GM Ji, they would have never heard of hapkido and therefore would not be practicing it today.

Has nothing to do with who 'ranked' who. GM Han was responsible, through his involvement in the BJ films, for putting the art of Hapkido out there before the western audience. If Ji hadn't taught him, somebody else would have as Ji wasn't the only student of Choi. And whereas lots of people have never heard of Ji, lots of people have at least a passing familiarity with Billy Jack, and by extension, GM Han.

This takes nothing away from GM Ji, but as I mentioned, he wasn't the only one receiving training from Choi. He may or may not have coined the term 'Hapkido' depending upon whom you wish to believe, but there are certainly other well known Hapkido folks out there that aren't under his umbrella.

BTW why does your account say, 'Restricted Access'? What does that mean?

 

[puunui]

Has nothing to do with who 'ranked' who. GM Han was responsible, through his involvement in the BJ films, for putting the art of Hapkido out there before the western audience. If Ji hadn't taught him, somebody else would have as Ji wasn't the only student of Choi.

You are just being argumentative,and that is why I choose not to respond to your posts, because you don't bring any facts to the table and just go forward with your flawed logic. If GM Ji did not teach GM Han, then he wouldn't have learned the hapkido kicks that GM Ji invented, kicks which were featured in the Billy Jack films.GM Ji was GM Han's direct and only teacher, unless you count a couple of seminars that were given by GM Choi at GM Ji's dojang which GM Han attended. When GM Ji first moved to the United States, GM Han and some other of his senior instructors held a meeting with GM Ji, just prior to the interview that black belt magazine was conducting. They all begged GM Ji not to tell the truth about Hapkido's history, that they were in fact his direct students and not GM CHOI Yong Sul like they had been telling people for years. When asked why they had lied about that, GM Han stated he felt ashamed that his primary hapkido teacher was four years younger than he, and he felt that the public would not appreciate or understand that. During that time when he first came to the US, pretty much every major hapkido practitioner you could think of either came to visit or called. I still have the business cards of those who came by to visit and it's like a who's who of hapkido.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

You are just being argumentative,and that is why I choose not to respond to your posts, because you don't bring any facts to the table and just go forward with your flawed logic.

I think you've been misreading my posts Glenn, no argument intended. We just don't agree on some things. I think perhaps your making an excuse for not answering some direct questions I've asked. But that is okay as well, your fully entitled to remain silent if you wish. Fortunately, I've found other resources that did provide clarity on several things.

I appreciate your input in the thread thus far, even if I can't support your position on some things.

 

[iron_ox]

These kicks?

I'm asking first before I comment on this collection...

 

[puunui]

These kicks?

Those are basic kicks. I was thinking more of the special kicks, the ones that in your opinion do not conform to GM Choi's conception of hapkido. By the way, the practitioners in those videos, Ivan and Scott, are excellent martial artists. I was there when that was filmed at one of GM Godwin's many dojang.

 

[mastercole]

Kevin, maybe I am wrong but it seems to me, an outsider of sorts, that you feel your instructor is more authentic, or somehow better than most, maybe based on his claim to have trained longer with GM Choi, maybe on other things.

How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are? Is there some kind of test of skills where one defeated the other, ect?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Kevin, maybe I am wrong but it seems to me, an outsider of sorts, that you feel your instructor is more authentic, or somehow better than most, maybe based on his claim to have trained longer with GM Choi, maybe on other things.

How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are? Is there some kind of test of skills where one defeated the other, ect?

That's kind of silly Al. It is perfectly natural, given a positive experience, to think of one's instructor in a positive light. Glenn does it all the time Ad nauseam. However, that being said, this thread doesn't need to be derailed with a 'my instructor vs. your instructor' drift. The topic is GM JI. To which, so far it has been determined that he had an exceedingly short training time in the arts to reach a high level of Dan grading. That his student, in an administrative position and with very little actual training, promoted his instructor to this rank in this short period of time. That isn't stated for or against GM Ji, it is just stated as factual history. In this way, a person can make their own informed decision on whether or not his training time justified his rank. On whether or not a student with limited training can promote his own instructor. And on whether the emphasis in Koreans arts, from certain seniors tends to be more rank-driven that other ethnic arts by some of the examples given.

We can also widen the discussion about the kicks GM Ji has allegedly 'invented'. I'd like to here Glenn's explanation of the 'special' kicks that he claims GM Ji 'invented'. By using the term 'invented', Glenn is implying that these kicks have never been used in any art prior to GM Ji. I'd like to hear more about that. Thank you Glenn, in advance for providing more in-depth detail on these kicks.

Also, as a side note to the accelerated time in which it took for GM Ji to reach his 8th and 9th Dan, I really think the ranking structure of Glenn's organization needs to be examined. This will provide an excellent comparison of how GM Ji, and other seniors compare with those, like Glenn, that have risen through the ranks after them. How similar was it? How did it differ? Was testing the same or has it evolved over the decades? This can provide valuable data for all of us into how aspects of Hapkido within Glenn's organization have changed/stayed the same. Glenn, I'm sure you wouldn't mind, as a student of GM Ji, to expound a bit for us. Since it took GM Ji around 16 years or so to reach 8th Dan and a few more years to reach 9th Dan, how does that compare with the time it took you to reach 9th Dan under him? How long did it take you to reach this level? Also, how long did you directly train with GM Ji? I'm sure it was a wonderful experience for you. Thank you in advance for expounding on this as well.

And thank you to everyone for their participation in the thread and their efforts to make it a great and informative thread.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Those are basic kicks. I was thinking more of the special kicks, the ones that in your opinion do not conform to GM Choi's conception of hapkido.

How much involvement did Kim Moo Hong have in hapkido kicking development? I had heard (don't ask me where) that he and GM Ji developed the kicks together and that Kim Moo Hong was instrumental in their development and was apparently a more proficient kicker. Is that correct or is that off base?

Thank you

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

This came up in the TKD section, but I wanted to re-post it here where it was more forum-specific.


GM Ji Han Jae was born in 1936 and didn't begin under Choi, Yung Sul until the age of 13. So, doing a little math, he was an 8th Dan within 16 years.

• Who ranked JI Han Jae to 8th Dan?
• Is 16 years of training enough to reach this level, in your opinion? Why or why not?

Apparently, Mr. Park based on what I read in this thread. As for the second bullet point, it depends greatly on what the criteria are for grades of that level. Is there a physical test? Is it based on your owning a school? More than one school? How many students you've promoted? If you financed the GM's dojang or financed his efforts (Elvis Presley with regards to Kang Rhee and Ed Parker respectively)?

How about skipping from green belt to black belt with probably over two decades of inactivity between the two belts? If you are the president of your nation's strongest ally and trading partner who is visiting your nation on a good will tour (President Obama), such a promotion is a nice touch, along with a dobok.

Rank is issued for all kinds of reasons. So long as it isn't being bought and sold or self appointed in some weird way, I don't concern myself with whether or not someone has the time in for the grade they were awarded.

As far as GM Ji is concerned, he's far more qualified than I and I will not contest or question whether he is deserving of his rank, either in face to face conversation or on an internet forum. He is the founder of Sin Moo Hapkido and the art has stood the test of time. I leave it at that.

 

[iron_ox]

Kevin, maybe I am wrong but it seems to me, an outsider of sorts, that you feel your instructor is more authentic, or somehow better than most, maybe based on his claim to have trained longer with GM Choi, maybe on other things.

How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are? Is there some kind of test of skills where one defeated the other, ect?

Master Cole,

Yes, you are wrong. Please do not derail this thread. It is about Ji. I do not include Grandmaster Lim, or any other teacher I have had in any discussions not directly related to them. I have never made such a statement, or engaged in such silliness as a discussion of "who defeated who".

Getting back on track folks....

 

[mastercole]

Master Cole,

Yes, you are wrong. Please do not derail this thread. It is about Ji. I do not include Grandmaster Lim, or any other teacher I have had in any discussions not directly related to them. I have never made such a statement, or engaged in such silliness as a discussion of "who defeated who".

Getting back on track folks....

Don't panic, I am just asking questions. If need be, I'll start a new thread for my other questions. Ok? So then are you and your webpage claiming directly, or indirectly that GM Ji is lying about his martial arts history? Thanks

 

[iron_ox]

Those are basic kicks. I was thinking more of the special kicks, the ones that in your opinion do not conform to GM Choi's conception of hapkido. By the way, the practitioners in those videos, Ivan and Scott, are excellent martial artists. I was there when that was filmed at one of GM Godwin's many dojang.

Can you please point me to where I can find the special kicks? Perhaps a public video, if not maybe a list oir partial list, I have seen mention that there are 29 of them.

 

[iron_ox]

How much involvement did Kim Moo Hong have in hapkido kicking development? I had heard (don't ask me where) that he and GM Ji developed the kicks together and that Kim Moo Hong was instrumental in their development and was apparently a more proficient kicker. Is that correct or is that off base?

Thank you

Good question.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

If GM Ji did not teach GM Han, then he wouldn't have learned the hapkido kicks that GM Ji invented...

We can also widen the discussion about the kicks GM Ji has allegedly 'invented'. I'd like to here Glenn's explanation of the 'special' kicks that he claims GM Ji 'invented'. By using the term 'invented', Glenn is implying that these kicks have never been used in any art prior to GM Ji. I'd like to hear more about that. Thank you Glenn, in advance for providing more in-depth detail on these kicks.

I wanted to make sure this question didn't get lost in the shuffle. I'd like to see these special kicks that were invented by GM Ji.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

GM Ji said that LEE Do Sa was a taoist monk and also a "tae ki li yon" teacher. I asked him if he meant Taekkyon and he said the name again. He wrote it out in hangul for me and I still have that piece of paper. I will try and dig it out and you can ask your taekkyon teacher about it.

So maybe it might be incorrect to say that GM Ji "invented" those kicks, at least the basic kicks. "Included" might be a better word. He does say that he learned kicking from LEE Do Sa, so there is that.

Ah, so then Ji cannot be credited with the actual invention of any kicks in Hapkido, at least 'basic' kicks as you say. Does this then imply that there are 'advanced' kicks that he did invent? If so, what are they? How many? When did he invent them? What separates them from kicks in other arts that predate Hapkido? Also, by stating that LEE Do Sa, a Taoist monk taught him kicking, we can also surmise that others knew and taught these kicks as well and there are not unique or original to Hapkido. Unless you are stating that LEE Do Sa invented these kicks as well and that they are unique and original in the arts and no other art incorporates them.

History always makes for interesting conversation. I look forward to more detailed explanations Glenn. Thank you.

 

[leadleg]

I don't think this is quite an accurate statement. I would say that Grandmaster Bong Soo Han would better fit this designation, particularly with his work on the Billy Jack films which put Hapkido before the American/Western audience.

Yes you are right that Billy Jack was probably the first chance for some of us to see some Hapkido, but nowadays it is hard to find anyone under 50 who has heard of that movie. Now Bruce Lee with Doju Ji Han Jae everyone has seen.