Gift of Fear

[Cryozombie]

Iv'e read a lot about Gavin De Becker on the site, and seen a lot of reccomendations for "The Gift Of Fear" but I am having a REAL problem getting thru it...

I can't get beyond some of his ideas like the fact that if a guy is a nice guy or genuinely wants to help a Female he will simply leave her alone...

Here's a Quote from the book that I think illustrates what I mean...

"Remember, the nicest guy, the guy with no self-serving agenda whatsoever, the one who wants nothing from you, wont approach you at all. You are not comparing the man who approaches you to all men, the vast majority of whom have no sinister intent. Instead you are comparing him to other men who make unsolicited approaches to women alone."

I have a hard time reading that without thinking what he is saying is "Dont trust any man who approches you" and that as a nice guy, I should never talk to women unless they talk to me first...

What is everyone elses take on that?

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

He seems to be correlating any approach by a guy with a sexual advance; not at all considering that a guy may have other reasons besides sex for initiating a conversation.

Is he saying that 'nice guys' are celibate? Or, is he saying that the way to get a woman's attention is to NOT approach her, given the sweeping generalization that men who approach women are looking to score?

It is a bit confusing.

 

[Cryozombie]

he seems to Insinuate earlier in the book that even if a guys motive is to get to know you because he is interested in you, That means he still wants something from you, therefore hes not a "good guy"

 

[michaeledward]

So goes one theory on social behavior; that there is no such thing as 'altruisitic' behavior. Everything we do is motivated by selfishness.

I don't know if I buy that theory, but it is out there.

I have not read the book ... but ..

If he is viewing any initial interaction a threat, I would think that most of us view the world through the subjective lens. We believe that all other people are like us. The times I have seen the book referenced, and your extremely brief description, certainly seems to indicate a significant difference at the root level between the author and myself.

Should I project on to him a state of fear, because he was motivated to write a book about it? Or, should I view him as a letch, because he does not believe a man can interact with a woman without foregoing the 'nice guy' label.

And ... in the quoted passage, he does not equate approaching a woman to a sexual advance, but, even if he did, so what? Sexual attraction, I believe, is a far greater motivator than fear. And he, subjectively, disreguards 50% of the sexuality of the species in that assertion, if indeed that was the assertion he was making.

 

[Don Roley]

I have not read the book ... but ..

You should. Your post is filled with misconceptions based on the title of the book. If it had a better title such as maybe 'listen to your instincts' there might be less mistakes such as yours. As it is, yours is a common misconception.

At its base, he states that people should listen to their voices that caution them instead of blowing it off as being silly. Hence the title about how fear is a gift. It is something your mind gives you to tell you not to do something.

In the case of the woman being approached, I think that it is a valid point. The majority of men want something, even if it is a chance to prove to themselves that they are noble. The most likely to come forward with offers to help are the most likely to have some sort of motive. That is just my observation and experience as a former bachelor and a current father of a daughter. Men are sex crazed maniacs and if you try to argue differently then you obviously are lying.:ultracool

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

And ... in the quoted passage, he does not equate approaching a woman to a sexual advance, but, even if he did, so what? Sexual attraction, I believe, is a far greater motivator than fear. And he, subjectively, disreguards 50% of the sexuality of the species in that assertion, if indeed that was the assertion he was making.

Yeah...that was just the first thing that a 'not good guy' would want that came to mind.

 

[Carol]

Iv'e read a lot about Gavin De Becker on the site, and seen a lot of reccomendations for "The Gift Of Fear" but I am having a REAL problem getting thru it...

I can't get beyond some of his ideas like the fact that if a guy is a nice guy or genuinely wants to help a Female he will simply leave her alone...

Here's a Quote from the book that I think illustrates what I mean...


I have a hard time reading that without thinking what he is saying is "Dont trust any man who approches you" and that as a nice guy, I should never talk to women unless they talk to me first...

What is everyone elses take on that?

Just from the standpoint of a single gal...if a guy that I don't know approaches me out of the blue, my guard is totally up. That is not to say that it can't be lowered but...a guy really has to earn my trust for me to be able to lower it a bit.

Maybe that's why I don't date very much ... but ... haven't been in to many dangerous situations either.

 

[fireman00]

"The Gift of Fear" and "Protecting The Gift" are required reading for our BB tests. Both are excellent books; the first deals with how our survival instincts and that we know when something bad is about to happen but we don't listen to the little voice that starts screaming when things aren't quite right. The second book picks up where the second left off; but is aimed more at keeping children and teenagers safe.

While the books are aimed at women and children, everyone can learn something from them.

I would highly recommend both of them to anyone.

His Web site is http://www.gavindebecker.com/home.cfm

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It is a great read and I would recommend that everyone read it.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Bigshadow]

In the case of the woman being approached, I think that it is a valid point. The majority of men want something, even if it is a chance to prove to themselves that they are noble. The most likely to come forward with offers to help are the most likely to have some sort of motive. That is just my observation and experience as a former bachelor and a current father of a daughter. Men are sex crazed maniacs and if you try to argue differently then you obviously are lying.:ultracool

I am in agreement with Don. I am currently about 3/4 finished with the book. I believe he means pretty much what Don said. There is always a motive. The motive might be to get the woman's attention (to see if there is any interest or as Don said being "noble"), could be the guy just was attracted to her and was subtly flirting or it could be more insidious, feeling out the situation to do her harm. I believe he was trying to point out that on the surface their actions may appear the same, thus they will compare him with other's that don't have any intent to harm because the actions are the same but the feeling will be different.

I hope I made some sense with my ramblings.

 

[green meanie]

It is a great read and I would recommend that everyone read it.

Agreed. :asian:

 

[Bigshadow]

I am finally finished reading "The Gift of Fear". I know, it took a while, I have had 3 books going at once and limited time.

Is it just me or was the first and last chapter pretty much getting to the topic? The book was good, but all the chapters in between were geared toward the mechanics (techniques) of making accurate high stakes predictions, but the first chapter gave good step by step of them in action, and the last chapter was a good direct and pointed summary of "how it works".

It is a very good book to read (boring in a few places) and I definitely recommend it.

Now that I am finished with the "Gift of Fear", I can now finish "Living the Martial Way".

 

[MRE]

I agree, it is a good book to read. We give it to all of our students and friends children, both male and female, before they go off to college.

 

[Cruentus]

At its base, he states that people should listen to their voices that caution them instead of blowing it off as being silly. Hence the title about how fear is a gift. It is something your mind gives you to tell you not to do something.

In the case of the woman being approached, I think that it is a valid point. The majority of men want something, even if it is a chance to prove to themselves that they are noble. The most likely to come forward with offers to help are the most likely to have some sort of motive. That is just my observation and experience as a former bachelor and a current father of a daughter. Men are sex crazed maniacs and if you try to argue differently then you obviously are lying.:ultracool

In general, I am in agreement with Don as well.

I do believe in altruism; but lets think about what that really means.

A man who is really interested in the stranger womans well being will be smart enough to recognize that approaching her in an isolated area to "help" her with anything is something that is more likely to make her nervous then be helpful. An altruistic person isn't going to want to put a woman in that position.

Now, lets say I am walking to my car and a woman falls, or drops a bunch of stuff all over the lot. I'll do the chivalrous thing and ask her, "Are you O.K., can I offer you assistance?" from a safe distance. I will let her decide if I can help her or not because I don't want to cause her additional discomfort. She may very likely say, "No...I'm alright..." in which case I would take that to mean that she doesn't want my help and I will courtiously be on my way.

What he is talking about is the guy who is randomly asking for unpremeditated help, or even essentially forcing help upon a woman, "Hey, lemme give you a hand...". One needs to ask herself what the motivation of that guy is.

I think that if you keep reading, though, you'll see that DeBecker doesn't like to use absolutes, and that he states later that he is reluctant to provide examples in that people may mistakenly believe that these are absolutes. Obviously, not every guy is motivated by selfishness when he offers assistance. It depends on the situation. His point in the book is that people need to ask themselves these questions, and that people need to be aware of their instincts and listen to "gut feelings" on these issues rather then ignore them.

Paul