Gift in Return

[KenpoGirl]

Hello all, question that was posed in class today.

Gift in Return, is a very clumsy technique that can supposedly fail very easily. {i.e. the push to the groin invites a reactionary head butt from the attacker, the attackers legs are thick and you can't reach around to grab in one swift movement, or if the attacker is big his hand might not reach very far between his legs making maneuvering for the kick and the knee difficult etc}

Anywise ......

If this technique has so many issues why is it in the curriculum? Does anyone know the history of "Gift of Return"? {hint, hint, Mr. C, KenpoJoe, and anyone else with knowledge}

Any information would be appreciated.

Dot :asian:


P.S. For those that might not be familiar with the technique......


Gift in Return (Front- Handshake)

1. An attacker at 12 o'clock grabs your right hand with their right hand.

2. Step your left to 11 o'clock, just to the outside of your attacker's right leg, into a left neutral bow facing 12 o'clock, as you place your left hand on top of your right hand as you assist by thrusting both hands into your attacker's groin. Note: Your right hand will actually curl into a half-fist to your attacker's groin, your left a punch to your attacker's groin, or bladder. Your body will be pressing against your attacker's body in order to check off action.

3. Shift your left hand around behind your attacker's right leg and grab your attacker's right hand as your right foot steps to 10:30 into a left neutral bow facing 4:30. Immediately pull with your left hand as you push against your attacker's right hip. Note: This is all done to put some uncomfortable pressure on your attacker's testicles, cancel out their height zones, and cancel any ability to kick without falling.

4. Execute a right step-through knife-edge kick to the back of your attacker's left knee as you release your grab on their hand.

5. Plant your right foot between your attacker's legs and execute a left knee strike to your attacker's tail bone.

6. Cross out towards 10:30.

{copied from www.kenponet.com}

 

[kenmpoka]

Hello KenpoGirl,
There is a wrist manipulation right prior to pushing the arm between the attacker's legs.

Place your left hand thumb up(tiger mouth hold) against the attacker's wrist pushing inward, at the same time with your right hand press inward as well, pulling the arm away and inward. this will cause the attackers elbow to lock and turns his upper torso to the left, checking his depth and width, hence eliminating the possibility of a headbutt. All this is done while stepping to 11:00.

The old version of this tek was such that you would end up behind the opponent, pulling his arms upward through his legs causing him to do a full flip landing on his back. May be after Bruce Lee pulled off a counter to the flip, the tek was changed.LOL

Give it a try, let me know how it works for you.

Respectfully,
:asian:

 

[D_Brady]

When I talk to students about the gift techs I talk about catergory completion. If someone were to grab your hand or arm odds are their going to hit you with the other hand.The first move of the gifts IMO is getting you out of harms way.Gift of destruction your on the outside of the arm away from the attck from the other hand. Gift of destiney your on the inside closing the gap or even catching the attack with your elbow. Brocken gift your under the arm checking him and keeping you out of range of the other hand. gift in return you drop under the attack again showing the inside.outside,under and over counters for these situations. Please let me know your thoughts.Its late spelling errors I know.

 

[Michael Billings]

... now I actually like it. Saw Ray Parra pull off the old flip one in a recent seminar, and it was cool. I think of this one as the opponent is actively pulling you toward him with the intent of hitting you with his left hand; therefore we get to use some Purposeful Compliance and actively use his own momentum against him, while checking height, depth, and width. The problem I have is the old "Sweaty Palms" syndrome, when my hand slides off of his after the contact manipulation and grab from behind. I guess that is why you instantly check is height, again, and limit his rotation with the knife-edge kick and follow up knee (quarter beat timing and Borrowed Force.)

Play with some what if's with all the Gift techniques - e.g.:

Gift of Destruction: Forcing your hand back toward you to push you back - Feeding this action as you execute the 1st move.

Gift in Return: Attempt to pull you down and into left punch. Actually utilizing his body as a shield as you check all dimensions.

Broken Gift: Left punch, but not pulling you in .....

Etc., etc.

Play with the techniques and challenge yourself to find an application tailored for you, that you can execute and serve as a basis for your teaching others.

Respectfully ... most the time,
-Michael

 

[rmcrobertson]

Just in support of Mr. Billings' comments, I'd suggest that ALL of the techniques look silly if you assume that the situation is utterly static, or you go as far into "what-if land," (what if his buddy drops a piano out of a window on me? "Twist of Fate," would look pretty silly then!) as you possibly can.

Problem is this: to teach people to defend themselves realistically, you mostly have to start with techniques that will become fully realistic only later. In the meantime...

Thanks,
Robert

 

[KenpoGirl]

WOW, thanks for all the input, everyone.

I actually like Gift of destruction, once I got the timing right.
The questions about gift in return were brought up during class and I thought it would be a good discussion on here, and I was right so far.

It's a neat technique the way you get the poor fella in the compromising and embarassing position. I of course need to practise it a whole bunch before I can truly say this is on my least liked techniques list. Just like Gift of Destruction took me a while to get it smooth.

LOL may have just as much to do with my body type as the "attackers" body type ie not so flexible in manovering in close contact situations.

Please keep up the commentary, I get a lot out of what everyone says.

Dot
:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

I was at an instructor seminar with Mr.Planas we worked this technique for quite a while. He had us modify this technique slightly by placing the left hand as a check on top the opponent's right hand. From here we stepped in with a double punch our right hand went into the groin while the left went into the bladder. Then finished the technique off as usual except after reaching behind the leg to grab the arm, the right hand checked the hip, you made the attacker take a half step while you took a half step (moving up the circle) to make this technique work a little better. In theory instead of having to go all of the way around the opponent you both moved half way, you were still directly behind them working the 3 - 9 line. Just a thought.

 

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

I was at an instructor seminar with Mr.Planas we worked this technique for quite a while. He had us modify this technique slightly by placing the left hand as a check on top the opponent's right hand. From here we stepped in with a double punch our right hand went into the groin while the left went into the bladder. Then finished the technique off as usual except after reaching behind the leg to grab the arm, the right hand checked the hip, you made the attacker take a half step while you took a half step (moving up the circle) to make this technique work a little better. In theory instead of having to go all of the way around the opponent you both moved half way, you were still directly behind them working the 3 - 9 line. Just a thought.

I like those alterations Jason, thanks a bunch. I was going to need to alter it regardless because I could not hold the hand behind with two hands and do a knee, just because of issues with my body type. I appreicate the assist.

:asian: