Getting slammed....yikes

[Gerry Seymour]

MA training is to find the right key to open the right lock. The best counter for a technique may be deadly, but the best counter is still the best counter. If we take away the most effective counter, then what's the purpose of our MA training?

You don't have to take away best counters in training. There, you can know you're working with someone you trust.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have you fought many death matches?

If you know when you use this technique, you may hurt your opponent badly, will you still train it?

 

[drop bear]

What does that have to do with "to find the right key to open the right lock"? A good counter is still a good counter.

You train body slam on the mat everyday. It doesn't mean that you have to hurt people with that.

To have the ability to finish a fight is not the same as you have to use it all the time.

Competitions with rule sets that consistently cripple fighters don't tend to attract a high quality fighter.

Especially at a basic level.

The issue with a slam is yes I can do it nicely or I can break your neck. And the difference is very hard to judge.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You don't have to take away best counters in training. There, you can know you're working with someone you trust.

In training, you don't slam your opponent. But your opponent still need to train how to fall safely in that situation.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Competitions with rule sets that consistently cripple fighters don't tend to attract a high quality fighter.

Especially at a basic level.

The issue with a slam is yes I can do it nicely or I can break your neck. And the difference is very hard to judge.

When you try to slam me, I can let go my grips and use my arms to protect my head, I can survive through your hard smashing. But if I refuse to let go my grips and still try to drag you down with me, I deserve to be slammed.

That's the problem for those body slam video. People still don't understand that they should forget about winning and losing but protect their heads, protect their heads, and still protect their heads.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It doesn't make sense that you can use jump guard or pull guard on me but I can't use body slam you. If the rule doesn't allow body slam, the rule should also doesn't allow jump guard and pull guard.

Does it make sense that you are allowed to use single leg on me but I am not allow to punch on your head?

 

[drop bear]

It doesn't make sense that you can use jump guard or pull guard on me but I can't use body slam you. If the rule doesn't allow body slam, the rule should also doesn't allow jump guard and pull guard.

Does it make sense that you are allowed to use single leg on me but I am not allow to punch on your head?

Does it make sense that you can slam me but I can't hire a dwarf to run out from the crowd and hit you with a chair?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When you try to slam me, I can let go my grips and use my arms to protect my head, I can survive through your hard smashing. But if I refuse to let go my grips and still try to drag you down with me, I deserve to be slammed.

That's the problem for those body slam video. People still don't understand that they should forget about winning and losing but protect their heads, protect their heads, and still protect their heads.

Do you really think none of those people would rather not be knocked out?

 

[Hanzou]

I'd just like to add that pulling or jumping guard isn't going to always automatically lead to the person doing it getting slammed. Just look at Kron Gracie's guard pulls in MMA where slamming is allowed. Like all takedowns, it has its pros and cons. If someone pulls guard on you, you're not always going to be able to stop it.

Putting someone in your guard can be highly advantageous if you know what you're doing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'd just like to add that pulling or jumping guard isn't going to always automatically lead to the person doing it getting slammed. Just look at Kron Gracie's guard pulls in MMA where slamming is allowed. Like all takedowns, it has its pros and cons. If someone pulls guard on you, you're not always going to be able to stop it.

Putting someone in your guard can be highly advantageous if you know what you're doing.

Agreed. If it's done with the right opening, it's effective. Like most things.

 

[Buka]

I have found that the Guard is not only dismissed in general by people in the Martial Arts, but considered dangerous, taboo even.

I have also found that many that say that don't know diddly squat about pulling guard.

 

[JP3]

Drop someone on their head, most of the time they'll be out just like in the video. It's no fun. Well, unless you happen to be the SlammER.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have found that the Guard is not only dismissed in general by people in the Martial Arts, but considered dangerous, taboo even.

I have also found that many that say that don't know diddly squat about pulling guard.

I really hate guard. I hate being in it and I hate trying to pass it. And if somebody pulls it on me properly, I damned sure don't want to be on the ground with them.

 

[Buka]

If you know when you use this technique, you may hurt your opponent badly, will you still train it?

Nah.

 

[Hanzou]

I have found that the Guard is not only dismissed in general by people in the Martial Arts, but considered dangerous, taboo even.

I have also found that many that say that don't know diddly squat about pulling guard.

Some of the most hilarious videos I've seen on the web are anti-Guard videos by people who have no idea what they're doing.

The most (in)famous one being Stephen K. Hayes' attempt to escape;

Truly, an American classic.

 

[Buka]

Some of the most hilarious videos I've seen on the web are anti-Guard videos by people who have no idea what they're doing.

The most (in)famous one being Stephen K. Hayes' attempt to escape;

Truly, an American classic.

I'll bet he wishes he had that day back.

 

[JR 137]

Some of the most hilarious videos I've seen on the web are anti-Guard videos by people who have no idea what they're doing.

The most (in)famous one being Stephen K. Hayes' attempt to escape;

Truly, an American classic.

The problem with people like that is they don’t work with other people who genuinely know what they’re doing. They may even work with someone with a few months of experience, but that’s about it. If they worked with an actual expert, they’d probably be able to come up with something functional.

It was like the Wing Chun guy defending singles and doubles with pushing the guy down and/or chain punching his head. He had a guy shooting in on him who obviously had no clue how to do it under any amount of pressure.

If you want to come up with realistic answers to wrestlers, you work with experienced wrestlers. If you want to come up with realistic answers to boxers, you work with experienced boxers. And so on. Wrestle/spar/roll/whatever else with someone who knows what they’re doing. Ask them how they address things. Formulate something that fits your ideas, try it. Repeat as necessary.

In this day and age, there’s no excuse for not finding people outside your style/organization who are willing to exchange ideas. Except stupidity, of course.

 

[pdg]

hire a dwarf to run out from the crowd and hit you with a chair?

I'm adding that to my technique list.

 

[punisher73]

An oldie but a goodie...

 

[punisher73]

The problem with people like that is they don’t work with other people who genuinely know what they’re doing. They may even work with someone with a few months of experience, but that’s about it. If they worked with an actual expert, they’d probably be able to come up with something functional.

It was like the Wing Chun guy defending singles and doubles with pushing the guy down and/or chain punching his head. He had a guy shooting in on him who obviously had no clue how to do it under any amount of pressure.

If you want to come up with realistic answers to wrestlers, you work with experienced wrestlers. If you want to come up with realistic answers to boxers, you work with experienced boxers. And so on. Wrestle/spar/roll/whatever else with someone who knows what they’re doing. Ask them how they address things. Formulate something that fits your ideas, try it. Repeat as necessary.

In this day and age, there’s no excuse for not finding people outside your style/organization who are willing to exchange ideas. Except stupidity, of course.

I agree with your above assessment.

I also think part of the problem is that many instructors and students don't set the parameters of what they are teaching. Students of grappling see that positon, and automatically think he is addressing the "guard" and that the person knows what they are doing if they are in that position. Grappling students forget that long before the BJJ craze, it was and still is a common position to end up in during a streetfight by two untrained people. Many instructors don't preface what they are teaching as, "this will work against an untrained person who doesn't know grappling". Same with many "tackle" techniques. Grapplers/Wrestlers see a tackle and automatically think that they are supposed to be doing a skilled double/single leg takedown. In many cases, it's not. It's an untrained guy trying to tackle you and doesn't know anything about the proper technique. Same thing, instructors don't label specifically what they are doing as they teach basic defenses against an untrained guy and what options and what defenses against someone that has more training.