George Zmmerman trial begins...

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
The trial of George Zimmerman began today...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-backwards-trial-a-george-zimmerman-prosecution-primer/

Defense attorney Mark O’Mara
filed a motion for sanctions against de la Rionda for improperly withholding important evidence, and de la Rionda filed a petulant, angry and unprofessional response that is a model of improper legal writing. He eventually admitted in court to withholding the evidence, with an excuse of: “I forgot about it.” Despite multiple defense requests, he forgot — for seven months — that his most important witness was a perjurer. Judge Nelson has yet to rule on O’Mara’s motion for sanctions despite de la Rionda’s admission.

Dee Dee: The young woman known as Dee Dee was represented by Crump and de la Rionda to the court to be a juvenile — a ploy to keep her identity hidden under juvenile privacy laws. However, it was eventually revealed that she was 18 when interviewed by de la Rionda on April 12, 2012. That interview revealed that Dee Dee did not have information that contradicted Zimmerman’s self-defense account, and that she would be a terrible witness.

And a meet the jury article...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/meet-the-zimmerman-trial-jurors/comment-page-1/#comment-431758
 
Last edited:
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Apparently, the prosecution is using the tactic of putting Zimmerman's parents on their witness list to keep them out of the courtroom...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/24/Zimmerman-parents-courtroom

[h=2]In an exclusive to Breitbart News, the family of George Zimmerman has stated the Zimmerman’s parents have been barred from the courtroom by the State of Florida, even though under Florida law, the alleged victim’s family – the family of Trayvon Martin – has been allowed to stay. The state claims that because the Zimmermans may be witnesses for the state, they must be barred from the courtroom.
[/h]

some of the posters at the article thing it is because his mother is Peruvian, and the prosectuion doesn't want her to be seen by the jury...they want to be able to portray Zimmerman as a racist...
 

Aiki Lee

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,561
Reaction score
69
Location
DeKalb, IL
The guy needs to be put on trial, but he deserves a fair trial. None of us knows all the details and in order for any justice to be done Zimmerman needs a fair shake at the process. Manipulation on either side is a mockery of the whole justice system.
 
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
The prosecution didn't have a good day...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-2-analysis-of-states-witnesses/

State witness, Ms. Dorival, NWP coordinator

Recall that one of the key elements of the State’s theory of the case is that Zimmerman is a “wannabe cop” who “took the law into his own hands.” The expectation was that this witness would define the limited scope of the NWP, and the State could then illustrate how Zimmerman had aggressively over-stepped these limitations in “profiling” and “following” Martin.



Defense Attorney West

He asked if she had any personal knowledge of the drivers behind Twin Lakes starting a NWP,. Dorival confirmed that she had checked with the Sanford Police Department’s crime statistics and confirmed that there had been a spike in robberies and that the neighborhood’s concerns about crime were genuine. She was also aware of the recent home invasion.

Further, she thought it was great that Zimmerman was pursuing a degree in criminal justice. In fact, she had been so impressed with him that she had tried to recruit him for the Sanford PD’s “Citizen on Patrol” program.

“Citizens on Patrol?” asked West. “What’s that?”

It turns out that it’s a program in which the Sanford Police Department would provide Zimmerman with a civilianized patrol car and a uniform of sorts, and provide additional training that would allow him to effectively conduct patrols of his neighborhood. In contrast, the NWP program was far less pro-active, involving only observation and reporting.
Surely the Zimmerman described by the State as a “wannabe cop” seeking to “take the law into his own hands” and “profile” and “chase” unfamiliar black boys would fairly leap at such an opportunity. It was as close to being a police officer as Zimmerman was ever likely to get, the chance of a life time.
Zimmerman declined the opportunity.
This did not, however, spoil Dorival’s respect for Zimmerman. When asked by West if there was anything about Zimmerman’s demeanor that “raised any red flags” for her, she answered in the negative. George, she said, struck her as very professional, perhaps a little meek, but a man who was really committed to making his community better.

The head of the Home Owners Association goes sideways on the Prosecution as well...

He also recounted an interesting story about a particular robbery in the community. What made this burglary memorable to O’Brien was that he had actually gotten into a conversation with the soon-to-be-burglar only a short time before the crime occurred. The burglar–whom O’Brien described as a 17-year-old black man–chatted with O’Brien a while, and later was seen by some nearby construction workers leaving a townhouse later discovered to have been burgled.

A few days later, these same workers observed the same 17-year-old black man wandering through Twin Lakes again. They contacted the police, and the burglar was successfully arrested.
Then he made an astonishing statement, given that he was a State witness and given the State’s theory of the case.
The arrest was made possible, he said, because the construction workers followed the suspicious person from a distance. O’Brien was, he said, so pleased with the successful arrest that he had sent the workers a letter of commendation from the HOA.

The state's "Ear Witness," appears to have changed her testimony on the stand as well...not to the benefit of the State...

O’Mara handled the cross-examination of Bahadoor, and it was very quickly apparent that this person who had promised to be the State’s star witness of the day–and perhaps of the entire trial–was about to be have her testimony and credibility utterly, indeed humiliatingly, crushed before the jury.

It seems that the prosecution had a bad day...
 
Last edited:
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Apparently the "n" word was used prior to the encounter between Martin and Zimmerman...by Martin...

http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/26/m...ys-martin-called-zimmerman-creepy-***-cracka/

Another prosecution witness changes testimony...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/26/Star-prosecution-witness-Zimmerman-Trayvon-voice

In her original testimony, she said, “It could be Trayvon …. It could be, like I said, I don’t know, but it could be. The dude sound kind of like Trayvon, Trayvon do got that soft voice, and that baby voice sometimes. So it could be, I don’t know, you know, it’s not.” Jeantel testified today that she believes it was Martin’s voice on the 911 call.

I have been watching some of the coverage of the trial on the formerly Court TV cable network. The interesting thing is that they show pictures of Trayvon Martin and they are all him smiling, or with his family. I have yet to see any of the pictures of Trayvon Martin with the gun in his waistband and smoking what seems to be pot. I haven't heard mention of the video he filmed of his friends beating up the homless man. Now in court, these pictures were excluded because the judge didn't think they were relevant...but on the cable show...it seems there is a bias in the coverage...

Scratch the video mention...the video was actually taken of two homeless men fighting over a bicycle...
 
Last edited:
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
More prosection witnesses having trouble on the stand...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...es-tm-on-ground-when-shot-gz-on-top-in-fight/

More objectively, however, were observation testimony by Sudyka that was clearly contrary to facts known and accepted by everyone else involved in the case. On at least three separate occasions Sudyka referred to the “three shots” fired by Zimmerman–”pop, pop, pop”. No one but her has ever suggested that there was more than a single shot fired.


She testified that it was while she as on the 911 call with police that the shot was fired, sticking to that assertion vigorously. In fact, the 911 recording was played in court–yes, every single 16 minutes of it–and no shot was audible.


She also described the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin at the moment the shot was fired as being such that the bullet could only have struck Martin in the back (that is, she describes him as laying face down on the ground at that moment, with Zimmerman above him). We know, of course, that Martin was shot in the center chest area, right over the heart, and the bullet did not over-penetrate.


Interestingly, Sudyka also stated several times that the rainfall at the time was quite heavy–’buckets of rain” was the phrase she used, so intense that she needed to close a window to prevent rain from entering her home. This observation favors the defense, which has suggested that the rain may have washed away the traces of blood that several witnesses have said was not evident at the scene. Indeed, so damaging were these statements to the State that Mr. de la Rionda rose on re-direct for the sole purpose of inducing Sudyka to make corrective statements downplaying the intensity of the rainfall.


Sudyka also was insistent that she had heard two voices, one a loud, aggressive, confrontational, dominating voice and the other a softer, meeker voice. She attributed the confrontational voice to Zimmerman and the meeker voice to the “boy,” Martin. It emerged on cross, however, that she had never previously heard either Zimmerman or Martin’s voice, and was making her assignment based on assumptions of how they might sound, not on personal knowledge.

And another witness...

O’Mara is handling the cross of Manaloo, and has hit on three key points of attack so far. First was how dark the scene was that night, and how difficult it was for Nanaloo to make out what was happening. He successfully managed her to agree that all she was really able to see at the time was shadows, and even those only from inside her townhome, as she had never stepped outside.


The second line of attack is that her sudden ability to differentiate between the two people has emerged only today in court. In none of her prior statements, including one the evening of the attack, a later statement to investigators, and depositions to both the State and the defense, had she ever mentioned this ability to determine that it was Zimmerman who was on top. Her reason for not mentioning it previously? Nobody had ever asked her.


The third line of attack, and the one currently on pause for lunch, is to better understand the basis on which she judged Martin’s size. She did not know Martin prior to the shooting, and obviously could not have seen him afterwards except in photos. We all know, of course, that many of the photos distributed after the event show Martin as a much younger person than the 17-year-old, 6-foot-plus young man he was at the time of his death.

O’Mara is midway through the process of pinning down which pictures she may have used for her assessment. Obviously pictures that showed only a portion of Martin’s body, such as just his face, and/or that showed him when much younger would result in a misleading perception on Manaloo’s part, effectively destroying the credibility of her testimony.
 
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Updates of the testimony...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...analysis-and-video-of-states-witnesses//#more

On Manaloo...

In fact, asked O’Mara, you’re not certain as you sit here today who was where during that altercation, are you? She acknowledged that she was not. West had no more questions.

She also acknowledged that her determination of who was the larger individual came from Trayvon Martin's pictures when he was younger or the pictures which only showed his face...she assumed he was smaller than Zimmerman...The pictures from court...







He noted that in response to de la Rionda’s question, OK, so the guy on top to you appeared bigger, Manaloo had responded in the affirmative.
There was, however, some additional context that would be helpful. He read more of the transcript. He had Manaloo read the two or three sentences immediately prior to the just quoted portion.
Manaloo: How would you describe the physical of the guy on top or the guy on the bottom.
O’Mara: OK, and what was your answer?
Manaloo: I know after seeing the TV of what’s happening. Then Mr. de la Rionda said OK, and I said comparing the pictures, I think Zimmerman is definitely on top because of his size.
O’Mara: But again, not becasue you ahv ethat independnt thought obut only becaue you coampared the picutres we just talked about, right?
Manaloo: Yes.
O’Mara: Your only basis for this is not because you though the was on top becasue he was on top, but only because of the comaprison with the picutre of a 12 year old child.
Manaloo: Yes.

Hmmmm...
 
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Caught a little of Nancy Grace, and one of the other shows covering the trial...all support the Martin side of the story...
 

Tames D

RECKLESS
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
5,133
Reaction score
665
Location
Los Angeles, CA
why would that be?

Sorry for the late response FC. i just noticed this post. I don't have time right now to spend on all the obvious framing that has been done to Zimmerman. Read up on it and follow the trial. I think you'll understand.
 

Grenadier

Sr. Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
10,826
Reaction score
617
I saw the video of Mr. West opening with a joke yesterday--sheesh!

This was actually a smart tactic.

The prosecution basically opened up with what was an emotional plea, riling up the jury.

The use of the poor joke helped blunt the emotional surge, and jolt them back to their senses.



As for the prosecution, why the heck they would use Rachel Jeantel as their "star witness" is mind boggling. She can't even keep her lies straight, despite all of the coaching by Benjamin Crump and co.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...wrote-shooting/story?id=19504826#.UcxJ05zJL5w

A teenage friend of Trayvon Martin was forced to admit today in the George Zimmerman murder trial that she did not write a letter that was sent to Martin's mother describing what she allegedly heard on a phone call with Martin moments before he was shot.


In a painfully embarassing moment, Rachel Jeantel was asked to read the letter out loud in court.


"Are you able to read that at all?" defense attorney Don West asked.


Jeantel, head bowed, eyes averted whispered into the court microphone, "Some but not all. I don't read cursive."


It sent a hush through the packed courtroom.


Jeantel, 19, was unable to read any of the letter save for her name.



That was just one drop in the bucket that is essentially dooming the case for the prosecution.
 
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
I found this unusual as well when I saw the coverage of the questioning...the mother of the victim sat in on the initial interview with this witness...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/Zimmerman-prosecution-star-witness-Fulton

Rachel Jeantel, the prosecution’s star witness in the George Zimmerman trial, said on Thursday on the stand that Sabryna Fulton, the mother of Trayvon Martin, sat next to her during her first interview with the state attorney and law enforcement. As Kathi Belich of WFTV tweeted, “That is highly unusual. I have never heard of the alleged victim’s family sitting in on a witness interview in 32 years.”




Anyone in law enforcement of criminal law know anything about letting the murder victims mother sit in on an initial interview...?
 
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Apparently they took the deposition of the witness...in the Trayvon Martin's mother's house...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...nalysis-video-of-states-witnesses/#more-56863

In earlier statements–including a letter to Fulton and a recorded phone interview with family lawyer/advisor Crump–she had said that Martin had first asked Zimmerman, “Why you following me,” to which Zimmerman had responded, she said, “What are you talking about?” Such a response is clearly not confrontational, but rather defensive, in nature, the utterance of someone who is confused by a sudden act of confrontation.

Jeantel’s revised statement, however, was much more in line with what the State need to support the arrest and prosecution of ZImmerrman. Indeed, Jeantel’s newly revealed testimony formed the very backbone of the State’s affidavit of probably cause, the legal document that drove Zimmerman’s arrest and prosecution. The credibility of the newly emerged information began to degrade rapidly as West explored the circumstances in which Mr. de la Rionda had taken her statement.

They travelled together in this way to sit in the living room of the home of Sabrina Fulton, the very home in which Trayvon Martin had lived until his mother had recently sent the troubled and troublesome youth to go live with his father.

Further, Wests deliberate questioning soon had Jeantel admitting without hesitation that she had molded her testimony to minimize any pain she might cause Sabrina Fulton, silently weeping beside her. In that room on that day Jeantel told not the truth and the whole truth, but a version of the truth customized to meet the perceived needs and interests of her audience.

The second prosecution witness who helped the defense today...

On direct examination by de la Rionda, all of Lauer’s testimony was completely consistent with the defense’s theory of lawful self-defense, and to some degree even contrary to some of the State’s theory (for example, Lauer recounted that there was “pretty steady-paced rain,” when the State has consistently sought testimony that the rain was light or intermittent).

She also noted in both direct and cross examination that she herself was uncertain of the street names in the neighborhood, and that there were no street signs anywhere near her townhouse, the same area where Zimmerman would have reported to the non-emergency dispatcher his difficulty in providing a specific address.


And the other witness today...only helped the defense...again...

Here again the State had a witness who on direct provided testimony that was 100% consistent with the defense’s theory of lawful self-defense. The State spent considerable time having her testify to the effect that “the person who got up was the person who had been on top” when the two people were on the ground.

Zimmerman has always maintain, since his first written statement to the police the night of the shooting, that after firing his single round he had positioned himself above Martin’s prone body to keep Martin’s arms away from his body and prevent a renewal by Martin of his attack (at the time Zimmerman could not, of course, know the full extent of Martin’s injuries). Or, to read it in the words of Zimmerman’s own hand-written statement taken at the Sanford Police Department the night of the shooting:

At this point I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and say, “Your gonna die tonight Mother ****er!” I unholstered my firearm in fear for my life as he had assured he was going to kill me and fired one shot into his torso. The suspect sat back allowing me to sit up and said, “You got me!” At this point I slid out from underneath him and got on top of the suspect holding his hands away from his body.

 
Last edited:
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Despite the poor performance of the prosecution witnesses so far...it is still up to the jury. There may not be a need for rioting if they convict Zimmerman despite the evidence.
 
OP
B

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Wow, just Wow...does the prosectution even know what it is doing...the witness they call to the stand specifically states they saw with their own eyes...Martin on top of Zimmerman, pounding on him...I knew this guy was out there, but I thought his testimony wouldn't come out until the defense portion of the trial...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...punching-down-mixed-martial-arts-style//#more

Indeed, as has become the pattern in this trial, the longer the State’s witness was in the stand, the more damage he did to the State’s theory of the case. The continually growing climax was realized at the very end of the testimony, when O’Mara held a copy of Good’s initial statement to then-lead Investigator Chris Serino (a transcript of is provided below):

O’Mara: Just to clarify what was actually talked about with Chris Serino, Investigator Serino, during this, we’re going to call it for the moment the Ground-and-Pound conversation. We have a rule called completeness, so what I want to do is put it in context for you, ask you if this is what you said to Chris Serino. OK?
“Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”
Is that the context in which that happened?


Good: Yes.


O’Mara: And then Investigator Serino said, a word that I have, and the transcripts may differ, ground, couldn’t figure it, maybe he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:


“Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete at this point, so at this point...

Are all of the prosecution witnesses going to turn out to be hostile witnesses?
 

Latest Discussions

Top