Frangible Ammo

[SFC JeffJ]

Can anyone tell me about some of the newer frangible rounds out there? Or point me to where I can find some good info?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[beau_safken]

glocktalk.com Usually a damn good site for all things that are good and wonderful

 

[KenpoTex]

Take a look at the Federal Hydra-shok, and the Winchester Ranger SXT lines. Both types are condsidered to be pretty good ammo.

glocktalk.com Usually a damn good site for all things that are good and wonderful

:rofl:

 

[Grenadier]

Can anyone tell me about some of the newer frangible rounds out there? Or point me to where I can find some good info?

Take what you read with a grain of salt. There's some good stuff there, but also some items that need filtering.

http://thehighroad.org/

http://thefiringline.com


Glaser slugs still seem to be the choice for frangible loads, but in all honesty, I believe that you're better off with a premium hollowpoint load instead.

The only time I've kept Glasers in my gun was when I lived in an apartment complex where the walls were rather thin. I kept my S&W 686 revolver stocked with 6 Glaser Silver rounds (slightly larger shot size), but also had a backup S&W 640 revolver loaded with 5 Federal NyClad hollowpoints.

Don't get me wrong; if you hit the bad guy with a Glaser slug, then it's not going to be pleasant for him at all. It's just that I prefer a load that has more reliable penetration, and that frangible loads are there because they penetrate less. If the intruder has heavy clothing on, then that extra margin does come in handy.

If I decide to keep my revolvers stocked with Glasers again, then I'll use the Silver rounds, since the larger shot size gives a bit more penetration.

Since I bought my own house, I've gone back to hollowpoints for defense, and my Glocks are loaded with either Winchester 127 grain +P+ JHP Ranger loads (9mm), 175 grain Winchester Silvertip loads (10mm) or Remington Golden Saber BJHP loads (.40, .45), while the revolvers have either Remington Golden Saber loads or Speer Gold Dot loads.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Take a look at the Federal Hydra-shok, and the Winchester Ranger SXT lines. Both types are condsidered to be pretty good ammo.

:rofl:

Really wouldn't call them frangible rounds. Good rounds though.

Jeff

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Take what you read with a grain of salt. There's some good stuff there, but also some items that need filtering.

http://thehighroad.org/

http://thefiringline.com


Glaser slugs still seem to be the choice for frangible loads, but in all honesty, I believe that you're better off with a premium hollowpoint load instead.

The only time I've kept Glasers in my gun was when I lived in an apartment complex where the walls were rather thin. I kept my S&W 686 revolver stocked with 6 Glaser Silver rounds (slightly larger shot size), but also had a backup S&W 640 revolver loaded with 5 Federal NyClad hollowpoints.

Don't get me wrong; if you hit the bad guy with a Glaser slug, then it's not going to be pleasant for him at all. It's just that I prefer a load that has more reliable penetration, and that frangible loads are there because they penetrate less. If the intruder has heavy clothing on, then that extra margin does come in handy.

If I decide to keep my revolvers stocked with Glasers again, then I'll use the Silver rounds, since the larger shot size gives a bit more penetration.

Since I bought my own house, I've gone back to hollowpoints for defense, and my Glocks are loaded with either Winchester 127 grain +P+ JHP Ranger loads (9mm), 175 grain Winchester Silvertip loads (10mm) or Remington Golden Saber BJHP loads (.40, .45), while the revolvers have either Remington Golden Saber loads or Speer Gold Dot loads.

So there really hasn't been any improvement in them in the past 15 years or so? I thought (hoped) there might have been. Great concept, but there really hasn't been a good execution so far.

Jeff

 

[bydand]

What application do you plan on using them? if just for SD in close quarters (meaning neighbors are close) I have a personal favorite that I load up myself, but is useless over 10-15 yards because the accuracy is CRAP-O-LA. It is great for softer targets without deeper penetration, but has expansion. Like, almost explosive expansion within the first couple of inches. For my .357 I use a 158 gr. HBWC over a lighter load (whichever your particular firearm likes) and using a light crimp, seat the wadcutter with the hollow base forward and flush with the face of the case. That's it. They tend to tumble past 10 yards or so because the weight in the rear, but they expend the energy in a hurry when used in close. Never did any real "scientific" study of this load, but have shot a couple of hundred at a varity of targets and was happy with the lack of penetration on hard targets like walls, and the results on soft targets, even covered with layers of old cloths. My .02. Plus they are loads cheeper than the "fancy" frag. loads, with similer results.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Mainly was just asking to find out if anyone knew of any advancements in that field. I'm pretty happy with the loads I'm using at them moment. Just as an aside, I don't like using hand loads for SD purposes, I'd hate to think what a prosecutor would do if it came out I wasn't using factory ammo. Probably something like ultra deadly super handloads.

Jeff

 

[arnisandyz]

I'd hate to think what a prosecutor would do if it came out I wasn't using factory ammo. Probably something like ultra deadly super handloads.

Jeff[/QUOTE]

or go the other way if you downloaded the ammo "Ammo that was designed to mame and to increase the suffering of my client..." LOL

My findings on the frangible ammo have been the same as Grenadier...it would leave a nasty wound, but probably shallow (not penatrate enough). I would only use it if I absolutely had no other choice. Its kind of like the birdshot vs buckshot for home defense debate. In addition to Glasers there are also MAGSAFES - the shot is held together with a resin material until impact and they break apart. Never tried them though, they seem to expensive to reliably test them out, i'd rather spend the money on more ammo and practice hitting what I aim at.

 

[9mm+p+]

There is something newer out there, it's one of the newer frangible copper rounds. I'm looking for info on it as I key. They look like the old pin grabber rounds used to for people as old as me. I bought some in 380 ACP just to see what they did. They're sold as Glasers are in little 6 pack cards. They say they're approved for Air Marshall use, rather it's what they carry I have no idea. Supposedly though they won't go thru an aircraft's wall. I'm still looking, I have several magazines where these were full page ads but as always when I need something it's nowhere to be seen. If you are still interested yell.

 

[KenpoTex]

There is something newer out there, it's one of the newer frangible copper rounds. I'm looking for info on it as I key. They look like the old pin grabber rounds used to for people as old as me. I bought some in 380 ACP just to see what they did. They're sold as Glasers are in little 6 pack cards. They say they're approved for Air Marshall use, rather it's what they carry I have no idea. Supposedly though they won't go thru an aircraft's wall. I'm still looking, I have several magazines where these were full page ads but as always when I need something it's nowhere to be seen. If you are still interested yell.

Are you talking about that "Extreme Shock" stuff?

 

[9mm+p+]

THAT'S IT! I know I kept seeing it in full page ads in gun magazines I have but I either give away or lend out more than I keep so I couldn't find the ad and was blank on the name. I did buy some in 380 auto that a local gun shop happened to have. I was going to chrono them just to see what they did. They remind me of the old pin grabber ammo that used to be around. Still haven't shot them though. I looked for this for a long time and it bugged me that the name was a blank. Thanks.

 

[arnisandyz]

Nevertried it, so I don't how it works, but the "EXTREME-SHOCK" marketing is pretty funny. If your read the ads the kind of appeal to the Mall-Ninja crowd.

"Anti-terorrorist rounds"?
"Explosive Entry tactical defense rounds"?
"...turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system."

thats some creative writing!

 

[HKphooey]

Almost all the ammo companies are jumping on board and producing theri versions. Since OSHA and the EPA have been cracking down on the use of lead, many see a business opportunity opening up. The military has been testing many variations of the years (unable to find and more recent data, 2003 was the newest. Tests are being done with different blended metals (each has its goods/bads depending on the application).

Some other articles:
http://www.policeandsecuritynews.com/janfeb01/frangibleammunition.htm

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/tactical/articles/54281/

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2426405.php

http://www.frangiblebullets.com/

http://www.ms.ornl.gov/researchgroups/SPM/methods/powder/NTammo/Ntammo.htm

http://www.nlectc.org/testing/frangible.html

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005smallarms/tuesday/macdougall.pdf
I think I also have some links saved at home that show some recent ballistic gelitan tests.

This is also a good book, but some info is now outdated (not sure if there is a more recent version)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158160128X/103-2646797-9531036?v=glance&n=283155

And one more book:
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Video/Handgun/handgun4.asp

 

[HKphooey]

Some gelatin test pics...

http://www.accutecusa.com/gelpics_1.htm