Five year old is a first dan black belt...

[Daniel Sullivan]

Are you being serious here, sarcastic, or following your usual protocol for posting, and just posting some random stuff, for the sake of making a post? Either way, who the hell cares if she's gifted. Fact of the matter is, she's too damn young for a BB.

I'm going to say something that the nutrider group usually says...I want to see video of this girl. I want to see some sort of live proof that she performs the way its claimed, otherwise I called BS on her, her inst. and the school she trains at.

In this instance, it is hard for me to call 'BS' on the five year old. Shame the school. Also, given that dad is a "karate" champion and teacher according to the article, shame on him for not putting the breaks on. It is one thing for a non practicing suburbanite parent to go along with it; they do not know any better. But that guy does.

As for the kid, she is just doing what is asked of her.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Yes.

Not so much that it is 'so far gone' as it simply never was quite there.

Essentially, a student who is under fifteen goes through the colored belt curriculum at his or her school and is at a point where, were they an adult, they would be testing for first dan, is tested in the member school. Presumably the test is the same test that adults get, but scaled for a kid.

Assuming that the child passes, the paperwork goes to the Kukkiwon. They issue a certificate that reads, "First Poom."

At this point, the instructor ought to put a poom belt and a poom dobok on the kid. A poom belt is half red and half black, and a poom dobok is essentially the same as your TKD black belt dobok with the black collar, but the collar is half red/half black, just like the belt. This is the first point of break down: most of the time, the instructor puts a black belt on the student.

If the child is young enough that they will be eligible for second dan before they are fifteen, then they are tested for second poom and receive a certificate that reads "Second Poom." The same can be done for third poom, assuming that the student is young enough.

The second area of breakdown is that once the child is fifteen, the instructor can file paperwork and all of poom ranks convert to dan ranks, no test required. Thus a third poom is now third dan at the age of fifteen.

It should be noted that this is not automated. An eight year old first poom who quits after getting his belt and never comes back is still first poom, even if he is now thirty.

As I said, fixing it would be fairly easy. Making the poom ranks intermediate ranks (between kyu and dan), rather than unfinalized dan ranks that convert upon the child's fifteenth birthday would pretty much solve it.

And even if the organization will not implement it, a creative school owner certainly could.

Daniel

Ahh...I see. Well, that makes sense. I mean, if there was never any QC system in place, of course things are going to be FUBAR. I like your idea and I do think that if it were put into motion, they'd work. Problem is, getting everyone to agree to it.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

who knows shes probably gifted and ahead of her time ? :redcaptur

Perhaps. But one can be gifted and ahead of their time but not ready for certain levels of rank and responsibility.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Seems to bother those most who emphasize THE BELT. All the belt means is that the student met the requirements put forth by the instructor and the school. Results will vary.

It doesn't bother me, or affect me at all, since i could give a rats *** what goes on in another school, even if its the same style i teach. Not my responsibility or my problem.

Belts are for kids anyway... Adults should be more concerned with knowledge, skill, and improvement.

pete.

Well, I'm the first to say, as I've said it in many other threads, that its not the belt that impresses me, its the knowledge of the person. Of course, when you see someone bastardizing the art, because of their actions, it makes everyone look bad. Guilty by assoc. It happens all the time. Of course, I've also said that in the end, its that person who makes the poor choices, that'll have to live with the comments and negative talk.

 

[MJS]

In this instance, it is hard for me to call 'BS' on the five year old. Shame the school. Also, given that dad is a "karate" champion and teacher according to the article, shame on him for not putting the breaks on. It is one thing for a non practicing suburbanite parent to go along with it; they do not know any better. But that guy does.

As for the kid, she is just doing what is asked of her.

Daniel

I call BS on the child, because she could be a 15yr old 10th degree or a 5yr old 1st degree. Either way, I would never hold any respect for her or the rank. Sadly though, she is the victim, because of her young age, she doesnt know any better. Hopefully down the road, someone will tell her like it really is.

As for the dad, I thought someone said he was her teacher? Whatever the case may be, yes, shame on him. Then again, it'd be interesting to know his track record on promotions over the years.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Seems to bother those most who emphasize THE BELT. All the belt means is that the student met the requirements put forth by the instructor and the school. Results will vary.

It doesn't bother me, or affect me at all, since i could give a rats *** what goes on in another school, even if its the same style i teach. Not my responsibility or my problem.

Belts are for kids anyway... Adults should be more concerned with knowledge, skill, and improvement.

pete.

Essentially, I agree with you.

The problem comes in that people want to have it both ways. Master Jim Kim Yoshida Lee will tell you that his black belt students are the deadliest fighting machines on the planet. Then he puts black belts on six year olds that, frankly, look like six year olds doing kata and hit like, well, six year olds.

Mom and dad want that black belt to mean that the kid is a capable fighter who can defend him or herself. But those same parents would go bonkers if the kid were put through what passed for a black belt class twenty years ago, and the lawsuits would fly.

Realistically, having a means of rewarding hard working and continuing child students and having a means to bracket childrens' competition are necessary and reasonable. It simply needs to be strutured in a coherent manner that makes some degree of logical sense.

This mainly becomes a sticking point for school owners who's requirements are stricter than those of other schools. Parents will go down the road and often pay more money so that junior can have a black belt because that is all that mom and dad can see. The guy with the higher standards now suffers unjustifiably, essentially because a competitor has thrown standards to the wind and is milking gullible parents' wallets.

Let us face it; no matter how you slice it, you simply cannot explain to most people why a certificate from one martial arts school means more than a certificate from another. Even though that same parent understands it perfectly when colleges say it.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I call BS on the child, because she could be a 15yr old 10th degree or a 5yr old 1st degree. Either way, I would never hold any respect for her or the rank. Sadly though, she is the victim, because of her young age, she doesnt know any better. Hopefully down the road, someone will tell her like it really is.

As for the dad, I thought someone said he was her teacher? Whatever the case may be, yes, shame on him. Then again, it'd be interesting to know his track record on promotions over the years.

I was mainly thinking of this child specifically in my post.

If any child is bestowed inflated ranks from youth, but really works hard and tries their absolute best and looks as good as one can expect them to at their age, then I can respect them for that. The rank I really cannot hold in high regard. But mainly, I put the blame on the instructor or the instructor and the parents, depending on the circumstances, but always the instructor.

Honestly, most of the attaboy, self confidence, keep-em-interested stuff can be achieved by merit patches and in school awards rather than belts and rank.

Daniel

 

[arnisador]

Karate....kind of a generic term. I wonder what art she studies.

I was going to bet on TKD, but I don't know:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...id-gets-a-black-belt-at-five-115875-21387137/

The youngster puts in twoand-half-hours' training every day at the Koinchi Academy of Martial Arts in Allappuzha, India, where she is a student.

It was written KoInChi or KoinChi in other sources. This article also makes it sounds like it is indeed Japanese karate:
http://www.rexfeatures.com/features...old_black_belt_karate_kid?filter=H&pl=16&cr=1

 

[Miles]

In TKD (Kukkiwon), anyone under 15 is a poom, not a dan holder.

 

[Nomad]

Yep, read this one and just sadly shook my head. Written as an obvious fluff piece by someone who probably just happens to be a friend of the instructor.

Blame the instructor and the parents... oh wait, in this case, they're one and the same... the Dad is the instructor. Well, at least there can't be any claims of partiality or favoritism at that dojo.

*sigh*

 

[Haze]

There's a video with it and it looks like she memorized some kata so her father gave her a BB.

 

[Live True]

There's a video with it and it looks like she memorized some kata so her father gave her a BB.

I missed the video the first time...AND the fact that this made the news because she's the new "ambassador" for a video game called mini ninja

yeah...no commercial gain, opportunism, or taking advantage of a child here...nope...not at all
:rpo:

 

[Ceicei]

There's a video with it and it looks like she memorized some kata so her father gave her a BB.

I missed the video the first time...AND the fact that this made the news because she's the new "ambassador" for a video game called mini ninja...

For the others who didn't see the video attached with the article (Haze pointed it out), I'll provide the link below that takes you directly to the video:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/10/08/karate.black.belt.five/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

- Ceicei

 

[jks9199]

For the others who didn't see the video attached with the article (Haze pointed it out), I'll provide the link below that takes you directly to the video:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/10/08/karate.black.belt.five/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

- Ceicei

She looks like a five year old doing karate. Nothing more. Same sort of skill/performance as I see in other five year old kids doing martial arts.

 

[Stac3y]

I saw a 5 year old yellow belt do a better kata last month. Sheesh.

 

[Cirdan]

I saw a 5 year old yellow belt do a better kata last month. Sheesh.

Well I am sure this one can throw chi balls or something

 

[celtic_crippler]

I'd like to thank the father for cheapening the arts and disrespecting black belts (real ones) everywhere.

 

[still learning]

Hello, All "Dads" think there kids are the "bestes" ....and he felt she earn it...!

When you are the boss? ...one can promote everyone....Is it right or fair?

Many times it can be a miss judgement and have a long term effects overall...?

Remember there is NO laws or rules reguarding promotions and who should received a Black belt....just your own beliefs against his....

For us? ....Nope! ...my personal beliefs injected here too...

In our system we have Junior Black belts (teens only) and they will still need be be tested again for an adult Black belt when they are over 18 years old and finish the Junior requirements ranking too...and meet ALL the needed materials before testing..

Aloha,

 

[MJS]

I was mainly thinking of this child specifically in my post.

If any child is bestowed inflated ranks from youth, but really works hard and tries their absolute best and looks as good as one can expect them to at their age, then I can respect them for that. The rank I really cannot hold in high regard. But mainly, I put the blame on the instructor or the instructor and the parents, depending on the circumstances, but always the instructor.

Honestly, most of the attaboy, self confidence, keep-em-interested stuff can be achieved by merit patches and in school awards rather than belts and rank.

Daniel

I do see your point. Hopefully, down the road, someone other than her inst. will enlighten her about what the BB really means and how its earned. I have no issues with keeping kids motivated. I think its great to see kids in the arts, providing they are taking it seriously, and not thinking that its nothing more than a joke. This is why I'd rather see a kid with a JR BB or something that signifies something other than a full BB.

 

[Nomad]

Hello, All "Dads" think there kids are the "bestes" ....and he felt she earn it...!

When you are the boss? ...one can promote everyone....Is it right or fair?

I know my kids are the bestest, but have no illusions that they're in any way ready for black belt, including the one who's been training for 6+ years now. Great competitors and practitioners for their rank, but nowhere near black.