Fitting FMA into MMA

[Nolerama]

I recap the two points I made, which were completely ignored by Tez (and obviously will continue to be) and you see an emotional response? Then come out with things like "smell the roses" lol. I guess there was no emotion in any thing Tez said (may be difficult to find, amongst all the contradictions) or in anything you have said in this thread?

There's a difference between having a lot of emotion behind fact (Tez has a lot of insight into MMA, TMA, and how it all comes together in both SD and competition), and just BSing behind your keyboard because your ego got bruised in an online forum.

You remind me of this wrestler kid I've been rolling with. In sparring, he keeps asking me "could you show me submissions/setups?" and when I do, he keeps saying "I can power out of that with blah blah blah."

Well, he's never going to learn the sub if he keeps that mindset. So I just leave him alone, and hopefully, he's get that we're training, getting reps in, and not focusing on overpowering an opponent at the moment (which will prove wonderful w/ good technique).

I see you like that JKD143. My tongue-in-cheek reaction to pretty much whatever you say in this thread is due to the fact that I've given up trying to get my point across in terms of fitting FMA into MMA (which I can repeat that it's a good thing to do for a variety of reasons), and I've digressed into pointing out an subtle, yet essential point when it comes to posting in an online forum: don't take everything so seriously. We're generally a lighthearted bunch, and try to bring something to the table instead of posting ridiculous "I did this in high school so I know everything" dribble.

Lighten up. Because you're bringing nothing to the table... yet. At least, nothing we haven't heard before.

For whatever it's worth, I apologize for offending you.

 

[Tez3]

Over here we see little FMA, we don't have the cultural ties with the Philippines that America does so it's quite a rare style here though I'm sure there's people who practice it. Until, though, we have someone who has done FMA competing in MMA here we won't have a chance to see or learn any techniques. From what I've seen and read though I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something we can take from FMA and use in MMA.
I think I'll have to have a look for somewhere that trains FMA and investigate, see if they have someone who's willing to take a bout with us, amateur rules would be fine. We have a big charity show later this year for Help For Heroes, that would be a good time as we are looking for martial arts displays, even if they didn't want a bout a display would be very cool!

 

[Ronin74]

Over here we see little FMA, we don't have the cultural ties with the Philippines that America does so it's quite a rare style here though I'm sure there's people who practice it. Until, though, we have someone who has done FMA competing in MMA here we won't have a chance to see or learn any techniques. From what I've seen and read though I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something we can take from FMA and use in MMA.
I think I'll have to have a look for somewhere that trains FMA and investigate, see if they have someone who's willing to take a bout with us, amateur rules would be fine. We have a big charity show later this year for Help For Heroes, that would be a good time as we are looking for martial arts displays, even if they didn't want a bout a display would be very cool!

Going off on a tangent, I'd even like to see another country-vs-country-themed card. UFC 58 was USA vs Canada, which gave a lot of Canadian fighters some good exposure, and the recent TUF season showcased some pretty good UK guys I probably wouldn't have heard of (incidently I had my money on Pearson from day 1).

Of course on the downside, the average native Filipino fighter- assuming he's in healthy shape- would be lucky to even make lightweight. I'm a US born Filipino, and when I start working out, my weight drops A LOT.

 

[JKD143]

There's a difference between having a lot of emotion behind fact (Tez has a lot of insight into MMA, TMA, and how it all comes together in both SD and competition), and just BSing behind your keyboard because your ego got bruised in an online forum.

You remind me of this wrestler kid I've been rolling with. In sparring, he keeps asking me "could you show me submissions/setups?" and when I do, he keeps saying "I can power out of that with blah blah blah."

Well, he's never going to learn the sub if he keeps that mindset. So I just leave him alone, and hopefully, he's get that we're training, getting reps in, and not focusing on overpowering an opponent at the moment (which will prove wonderful w/ good technique).

I see you like that JKD143. My tongue-in-cheek reaction to pretty much whatever you say in this thread is due to the fact that I've given up trying to get my point across in terms of fitting FMA into MMA (which I can repeat that it's a good thing to do for a variety of reasons), and I've digressed into pointing out an subtle, yet essential point when it comes to posting in an online forum: don't take everything so seriously. We're generally a lighthearted bunch, and try to bring something to the table instead of posting ridiculous "I did this in high school so I know everything" dribble.

Lighten up. Because you're bringing nothing to the table... yet. At least, nothing we haven't heard before.

For whatever it's worth, I apologize for offending you.

What are you talking about? When did I mention high school? You two really do just play tag team without reading anything do you? Where in this thread did I mention high school? Show me where I took anything more serious than anybody else? No bruised ego, merely baffled at how someone can ask a question of another poster, then pretend they never brought it up and try to belittle, condensed and insult them right out the gate - curious behavior that fortunately only you two have shown since I signed up here (its obviously common though, since other members can literally "call it" before it even happens.)

Listen, I'm glad you two are internet warriors with tons of posts. It's great (although ludicrous) that you think all that Tez says is fact. If you're each others fanboys, more power to you. Her "insights into MMA and SD" garnered from all her time in the gym and coaching other peoples competitions means little to me. Its hypothetical and arbitrary. Probably never been used outside of a game in any sense. Unfortunately, I've had to do it for real and lost people dear to me in the process. You guys can keep your playground "we know all cuz we roll in the gym" condescending attitudes derived from all the time in a sport. Good luck to you both, keep pushing that post count, that’s where the real SD skills come from.

 

[MJS]

I think the bottom line is this: The MMA guys I've known are an open minded lot. They do not, however, take much on faith. Show them that something has utility, and they'll consider it carefully. Tell them that they should do X, Y, and Z because centuries ago it was battlefield tested, style X is specifically designed to contend with range Y, or whatever other overly analytical rationale we tend to get in online discussions, and you're likely to be met with a fair amount of cynicism.

On the flip side, I can point to a number of threads, where MMA folks claim that X works....because (insert any fighter here) does it. For myself, I don't give a crap if 10 others can pull off a move. I will not use that as a basis as to whether or not it'll work for me. They are assuming move X will work, because those 10 or 20 people made it work, but is it working for them? Thats whats going to matter.

Basically, it's going to come down to someone being willing to step up and try using some of these things in the ring. If someone responded to a bull rush with a reverse triangle footwork that neatly put them behind the other guy and in terrific position for a finishing move, then the MMA community would likely start saying "huh, you know there may be something there." If someone started using the oblique kick (or sipa) to snuff their opponent's kicking or forward blitzes, there might well be interest.

At the risk of sounding like certain moves, are "th3 d3adl3y", as thats the term thats usually used, I'll point to this example. If we look at the Kajukenbo Fight Quest episode, we saw Jimmy get dropped by an elbow to the back. Yet that same move, which is touted by countless TMAists, as an effective move against a shoot, will be bashed to hell by certain MMA folks as a fantasy move. Yet again, we saw it on national tv. Yet if we look at the rules, striking with the point of the elbow is a no-no. So, while FQ wasn't an MMA show, per se, we saw a tech. that is talked about alot, work with good results.

But the flaw with most "why don't UFC fighters use ____ " is that they firmly place the onus upon the MMA community to recognize the absolute brilliance of whatever your style of choice is and then gratefully seek out instruction in it. To me, that reasoning is backward. If recognition by the MMA community is important (and it's up to each of us to decide whether it is), then someone needs to show them what we have to offer. In a venue that's compelling and repeatable.


Stuart

Personally, I don't care what they think about any of the arts I train in. There is no ultimate art, and for everything wrong they can find about what I do, I can match them. For the record, before anyone gets riled up, I have nothing against MMA fighters. I think that there are good ones, and ones that act like jerks, just like in every art. I think that MMAists and TMAists can both benefit from each other.

I also think that alot of it comes down to how you train. Youtube seems to be the proving ground for many, so they tend to base what they see and assume that every (insert art here) trains the same way. Its not too often that you see a video of a Kenpo guy doing ground work, yet I train it. The only person I'm interested in impressing, is me.

 

[Tez3]

Going off on a tangent, I'd even like to see another country-vs-country-themed card. UFC 58 was USA vs Canada, which gave a lot of Canadian fighters some good exposure, and the recent TUF season showcased some pretty good UK guys I probably wouldn't have heard of (incidently I had my money on Pearson from day 1).

Of course on the downside, the average native Filipino fighter- assuming he's in healthy shape- would be lucky to even make lightweight. I'm a US born Filipino, and when I start working out, my weight drops A LOT.

We have a lot of lighter fighters here, we don't seem to have the larger guys that America has doing MMA. We have a very good mid range and only a couple of heavyweights.
MJS, only the striking downward point of elbow when standing isn't allowed in MMA, you can use it any other way including when on the ground.


JKD143, you assume an awful lot, do I use it outside the gym/dojo? As a matter of fact I do... rofl, guess you haven't read enough of my 'enormous' amount of posts have you? Keep up the insults, you're now amusing everyone.

 

[LoneRider]

Of course on the downside, the average native Filipino fighter- assuming he's in healthy shape- would be lucky to even make lightweight. I'm a US born Filipino, and when I start working out, my weight drops A LOT.

Had to comment on that line. I'm a US born Filipino who works out nearly constantly (US serviceman) and I personally tip the scales at 160 lbs, within welterweight tolerances I think.

I'm certain that given proper training, good diet, and good funding a Filipino making MMA weight would be possible. I'd love to see an MMA version of Pacquio making a great MMA debut.

And in a previous thread a few FMA practicioners say that the FMAs were among the first hybrid arts as every technique in Eskrima and many other FMAs has both armed and unarmed applications for use in battle. I'd see practicing FMA with MMA as a way to improve ones practical self defense skills and ring fighting skills and believe a fighter training in both benefits both.

 

[ap Oweyn]

On the flip side, I can point to a number of threads, where MMA folks claim that X works....because (insert any fighter here) does it. For myself, I don't give a crap if 10 others can pull off a move. I will not use that as a basis as to whether or not it'll work for me. They are assuming move X will work, because those 10 or 20 people made it work, but is it working for them? Thats whats going to matter.

Well sure. But there's two explanations for that. 1) The fan base and practitioner base for MMA are growing exponentially, meaning that the percentage of boneheads is going up exponentially as well. So you're bound to have a certain (growing) percentage of voices spouting things that more experienced people (TMA or MMA) know to be rubbish.

2) They're using the same rationale that lots of other martial artists use all the time. Their example is just more immediate. Saying that Brandon Vera pulls off the high kick consistently, therefore it works in those parameters, is really no different from saying that style X was used on the battlefield hundreds of years ago and is therefore appropriate for current self-defense. It's still an appeal to vicarious experience.

At the risk of sounding like certain moves, are "th3 d3adl3y", as thats the term thats usually used, I'll point to this example. If we look at the Kajukenbo Fight Quest episode, we saw Jimmy get dropped by an elbow to the back. Yet that same move, which is touted by countless TMAists, as an effective move against a shoot, will be bashed to hell by certain MMA folks as a fantasy move. Yet again, we saw it on national tv. Yet if we look at the rules, striking with the point of the elbow is a no-no. So, while FQ wasn't an MMA show, per se, we saw a tech. that is talked about alot, work with good results.

Again, there's a disparity between experienced MMA types who are making a technical point (and a good one in my view) and the slew of fanboys who then take that point and expand its logic beyond usefulness. For instance, the more experienced guys I've spoken to point out that the elbow drop to the back isn't a good defense against an experienced shootist because wrestling and similar arts teach you to bend at the knee when going for the single- or double-leg. Not at the waist. So the back isn't presenting itself if done properly.

I don't think anyone (credible) is suggesting that dropping the point of your elbow on some dude's spine won't get a reaction. Just that it's a tactic that doesn't address how those takedowns are supposed to be performed. So while it may work on someone, it's a low-percentage move on someone good.

Two other things to bear in mind: 1) They could be wrong, and would likely happily admit it faced with enough evidence. 2) I think a lot of the objections aren't to the idea that it could work, but to the idea that it's a watertight and infallible solution to that problem. I've heard a lot of "anti-grapplers" say "I'd just do X" as if it weren't even an issue, because they have this clever move in their pocket.

Personally, I don't care what they think about any of the arts I train in. There is no ultimate art, and for everything wrong they can find about what I do, I can match them.

I suppose I could too. But, for me, it's got more to do with answering my own questions. And matching someone in a debate doesn't do much to quiet those questions.

For the record, before anyone gets riled up, I have nothing against MMA fighters. I think that there are good ones, and ones that act like jerks, just like in every art. I think that MMAists and TMAists can both benefit from each other.

Agreed wholeheartedly. To be clear, I'm much more of a TMAist myself. I don't practice MMA. I've trained in some kickboxing, the odd BJJ class, the infrequent muay thai class. Never competed in anything other than a couple of point tournaments in my childhood and WEKAF stickfighting tournaments. So I'm not trying to further "my camp" here. I just think that MMA offers a useful "lab experience" for people looking to get a little more feedback.

I also think that alot of it comes down to how you train. Youtube seems to be the proving ground for many, so they tend to base what they see and assume that every (insert art here) trains the same way. Its not too often that you see a video of a Kenpo guy doing ground work, yet I train it. The only person I'm interested in impressing, is me.

Well, here's the thing: Out of any group with a specialized interest, much of the commentary is likely to come from people who have more enthusiasm than insight. And given the explosion in MMA lately, the explosion in martial arts in general, and the availability of soapboxes through the internet, it's no great surprise that much of the debate that goes on amounts to roughly sod all.




Stuart

 

[MJS]

MJS, only the striking downward point of elbow when standing isn't allowed in MMA, you can use it any other way including when on the ground.

Oh, I know. I was simply replying to this:

Basically, it's going to come down to someone being willing to step up and try using some of these things in the ring. If someone responded to a bull rush with a reverse triangle footwork that neatly put them behind the other guy and in terrific position for a finishing move, then the MMA community would likely start saying "huh, you know there may be something there." If someone started using the oblique kick (or sipa) to snuff their opponent's kicking or forward blitzes, there might well be interest.

which I took as MMA fighters would be more likely to adapt something if it worked in the ring. While FQ wasn't in the ring or a MMA show, per se, we still saw the downward elbow, which is often bashed when TMAists suggest its use, work with great effectiveness, against a double leg attempt.

 

[Tez3]

Oh, I know. I was simply replying to this:



which I took as MMA fighters would be more likely to adapt something if it worked in the ring. While FQ wasn't in the ring or a MMA show, per se, we still saw the downward elbow, which is often bashed when TMAists suggest its use, work with great effectiveness, against a double leg attempt.

I hate accidently hitting or kicking someones elbow lol!
The reason the downward elbow isn't allowed is because it's so damn effective, anyone seen Ong Bak? (hope it was called the same in the States), the elbows and knees in there, ouch!.

 

[MJS]

Well sure. But there's two explanations for that. 1) The fan base and practitioner base for MMA are growing exponentially, meaning that the percentage of boneheads is going up exponentially as well. So you're bound to have a certain (growing) percentage of voices spouting things that more experienced people (TMA or MMA) know to be rubbish.

2) They're using the same rationale that lots of other martial artists use all the time. Their example is just more immediate. Saying that Brandon Vera pulls off the high kick consistently, therefore it works in those parameters, is really no different from saying that style X was used on the battlefield hundreds of years ago and is therefore appropriate for current self-defense. It's still an appeal to vicarious experience.

1) I agree. And I don't want to sound like I'm picking on MMA, because those same boneheads can be found in pretty much every art.

2) True, but like I said, those folks (the boneheads) assume that because it works for 10 people, that its a given it'll work for them. Additionally, I tend to cringe when I see people with the, "Well, if my Master says it worked and he used it, and his teacher had success, and his teachers teacher...it must work!" line. Like I said, I don't care if it works for them, due to the fact that its not going to be them thats defending me, it'll be me. My Kenpo inst, my Arnis inst...they can both pull off moves that leave me in wide eyed, yet, those same moves may not be on my fav. list. I try not to run around saying that Kenpo is the best standup art. Its the best for me though. When I talk about the importance of learning ground defense, may people assume I'm talking about BJJ. Not the case, as I always give credit to the other grappling arts out there.

Again, there's a disparity between experienced MMA types who are making a technical point (and a good one in my view) and the slew of fanboys who then take that point and expand its logic beyond usefulness. For instance, the more experienced guys I've spoken to point out that the elbow drop to the back isn't a good defense against an experienced shootist because wrestling and similar arts teach you to bend at the knee when going for the single- or double-leg. Not at the waist. So the back isn't presenting itself if done properly.

Watch from 2:20 on. So basically what you're saying is, is that if he was lower, bending more with the knees, that wouldn't have happened? Personally, I don't think that Jim thought that the Kajukenbo guy would've had the defense that he did. As for experience, I think a 5-1 record is a pretty good start.

I don't think anyone (credible) is suggesting that dropping the point of your elbow on some dude's spine won't get a reaction. Just that it's a tactic that doesn't address how those takedowns are supposed to be performed. So while it may work on someone, it's a low-percentage move on someone good.

Correct, because most of the people saying it isn't effective are most likely the fanboy, keyboard warriors, who probably spend more time talking smack behind the keyboard, than they do on the mat in a real school.

Two other things to bear in mind: 1) They could be wrong, and would likely happily admit it faced with enough evidence. 2) I think a lot of the objections aren't to the idea that it could work, but to the idea that it's a watertight and infallible solution to that problem. I've heard a lot of "anti-grapplers" say "I'd just do X" as if it weren't even an issue, because they have this clever move in their pocket.

Correct again. Likewise, I also cringe when I hear certain moves referred to as watertight and infallible. While a poke to the eye is effective, if that is the only tool said person has to fall back on, then IMHO, they seriously need to re-eval. their training.

I suppose I could too. But, for me, it's got more to do with answering my own questions. And matching someone in a debate doesn't do much to quiet those questions.

True, and likewise, I'm more concerned with the same.

Agreed wholeheartedly. To be clear, I'm much more of a TMAist myself. I don't practice MMA. I've trained in some kickboxing, the odd BJJ class, the infrequent muay thai class. Never competed in anything other than a couple of point tournaments in my childhood and WEKAF stickfighting tournaments. So I'm not trying to further "my camp" here. I just think that MMA offers a useful "lab experience" for people looking to get a little more feedback.

Absolutely, and I preach the same thing brother. I'm always saying that both can benefit from each other, and I too, am always looking for things that I can borrow from MMA to make my toolbox better.

Well, here's the thing: Out of any group with a specialized interest, much of the commentary is likely to come from people who have more enthusiasm than insight. And given the explosion in MMA lately, the explosion in martial arts in general, and the availability of soapboxes through the internet, it's no great surprise that much of the debate that goes on amounts to roughly sod all.




Stuart

I think you and I agree more than we disagree. I get the same feeling...that many people, the ones who have the biggest mouths, are the falvor of the week chasers. I mean, I'm sure we had the followers of kickboxing, then in the 80s it was the Ninja craze, and now the MMA craze. They see it, they like it, and they think that whatever flavor is currently on the shelf is the end all be all of training. And like I said, I'd be willing to bet that the biggest talkers, are people who watch TUF with their friends, then run to the back yard, start 'rolling', and assume they know what they're doing, when in reality, they should spend their time doing something more productive, like joining a school.

 

[Tez3]

What are you talking about? When did I mention high school? You two really do just play tag team without reading anything do you? Where in this thread did I mention high school? Show me where I took anything more serious than anybody else? No bruised ego, merely baffled at how someone can ask a question of another poster, then pretend they never brought it up and try to belittle, condensed and insult them right out the gate - curious behavior that fortunately only you two have shown since I signed up here (its obviously common though, since other members can literally "call it" before it even happens.)

Listen, I'm glad you two are internet warriors with tons of posts. It's great (although ludicrous) that you think all that Tez says is fact. If you're each others fanboys, more power to you. Her "insights into MMA and SD" garnered from all her time in the gym and coaching other peoples competitions means little to me. Its hypothetical and arbitrary. Probably never been used outside of a game in any sense. Unfortunately, I've had to do it for real and lost people dear to me in the process. You guys can keep your playground "we know all cuz we roll in the gym" condescending attitudes derived from all the time in a sport. Good luck to you both, keep pushing that post count, that’s where the real SD skills come from.

I thought shall I post about this or shan't I, then I thought 'oh lets add to my post count' so I am replying, hey why not it's what internet warriors do isn't it? And I might get lots of thanks for it too, whooppee! Maybe even a rep point if I'm lucky!

Yeah I know everything cuz I roll in the gym, yep thats me,though I don't coach other peoples competitions whatever that means. Should we ignore my military service starting in 1971, I even got a medal, wow! that was for what you'd call getting shot at, blown up and various other things in the Province, ah what fun times they were.The smell of religious intolerence splling into violence on a night is invigorating. Then lets see, my job, did a bit in the Balkans with that, though a Saturday night in a Garrison town is always good for a fight or two. Done some door work ( on the quiet though my job doesn't like me doing it lol), we have some rough areas here. Knife crime is rife in many areas. My job keeps me pretty on the ball SD wise as well as lifewise.Well you didn't think I was a typist or shop assistant did you? I've got a posting preference order in for a tour in Afhanistan to teach the local police force alongside my colleagues, well Shelley wanted postcards so I thought that might be fun for her to get some from me there.
Training MA wise, well it's adequate I guess, trained with some of the best the UK can offer, Geoff Thompson, Iain Abernethy etc etc. I'm MMA trained and trainer, professional referee. Been with Pride & Glory Ultimate Fighting since we started it, gave Bisping his first pro fight (not thats much to be proud of lol), yeah thats the history of a real keyboard warrior, I admit it I know everything rofl!
I'm sorry you lost people but son, you ain't the only one. Ever been stood next to mate when a sniper put a round through his head and you got splattered with his brain? Northern Ireland 1972. Thats just the start of it, guess I may have seen more violence that many but then you think I'm liar, right, what I say isn't the truth, ah poor deluded boy! never mind, it's only the internet, take two aspirins and go and lie down in a dark place.
Why does it worry you so much what others write? why are you getting so upset? what I say is either my opinion or if it's something I personally know it's the truth, you don't think so...then put your money where your mouth is, put it in black and white where you think I'm lying! then contact a very nice American gentleman called Skip Hall who's met me and will tell you exactly what I've told you.

Little man, you've had a busy day,it's time to wind your neck in now.

 

[Ronin74]

Had to comment on that line. I'm a US born Filipino who works out nearly constantly (US serviceman) and I personally tip the scales at 160 lbs, within welterweight tolerances I think.

I'm certain that given proper training, good diet, and good funding a Filipino making MMA weight would be possible. I'd love to see an MMA version of Pacquio making a great MMA debut.

Hey, kapatid! I can definitely see that as well, but you're definitely on the money in that it would require proper training and a great diet. I carry A LOT of weight right now, but when my metabolism kicks back in after a few months of training, I usually drop down to about 150, which is in the middle of the lightweight class. Oddly enough, that's still kind of a heavyweight for someone of my height (5'4").

And in a previous thread a few FMA practicioners say that the FMAs were among the first hybrid arts as every technique in Eskrima and many other FMAs has both armed and unarmed applications for use in battle. I'd see practicing FMA with MMA as a way to improve ones practical self defense skills and ring fighting skills and believe a fighter training in both benefits both.

I mentioned something in a similar vein elsewhere (maybe even in this thread... lol) that even though SD and MMA are two seperate entities, they work well in helping to enhance each other. My experience in FMA has given me a truckload of technique to work with, but short of picking a real fight, MMA offers me the real-time speed with some levels of unpredicatability and learning to apply something from my familiar background to an unfamiliar situation.

For instance, in a stand-up (or even SD) scenario, I know how to parry a punch and transition into an armbar- usually for a takedown. However, the idea of parrying a punch shouldn't necessarily have to go out the window because I'm on my back in an MMA scenario. Still trying to figure that out, which brought me to my original post.

 

[Ronin74]

I think you and I agree more than we disagree. I get the same feeling...that many people, the ones who have the biggest mouths, are the falvor of the week chasers. I mean, I'm sure we had the followers of kickboxing, then in the 80s it was the Ninja craze, and now the MMA craze. They see it, they like it, and they think that whatever flavor is currently on the shelf is the end all be all of training. And like I said, I'd be willing to bet that the biggest talkers, are people who watch TUF with their friends, then run to the back yard, start 'rolling', and assume they know what they're doing, when in reality, they should spend their time doing something more productive, like joining a school.

Wait! Are we bringing back the Ninja craze? I'm still sporting my mohawk and black van from my A-Team phase!

 

[Tez3]

Wait! Are we bringing back the Ninja craze? I'm still sporting my mohawk and black van from my A-Team phase!

LOL, but how old does it make you feel though when you've seen all these crazes come and go then return!

 

[Tez3]

1) I agree. And I don't want to sound like I'm picking on MMA, because those same boneheads can be found in pretty much every art.

2) True, but like I said, those folks (the boneheads) assume that because it works for 10 people, that its a given it'll work for them. Additionally, I tend to cringe when I see people with the, "Well, if my Master says it worked and he used it, and his teacher had success, and his teachers teacher...it must work!" line. Like I said, I don't care if it works for them, due to the fact that its not going to be them thats defending me, it'll be me. My Kenpo inst, my Arnis inst...they can both pull off moves that leave me in wide eyed, yet, those same moves may not be on my fav. list. I try not to run around saying that Kenpo is the best standup art. Its the best for me though. When I talk about the importance of learning ground defense, may people assume I'm talking about BJJ. Not the case, as I always give credit to the other grappling arts out there. ..................
quote]


On a recent seminar with Iain Abernethy one of the things he said that stuck in my mind was that not all techniques work for everyone and you have to work out which ones do and don't. He says he has a good idea what works for him with his height and weight and he knows what he's capable of but it's different for everyone. It's actually a relief to hear that because as you said when people say it works for them and their instructor etc etc you feel it's your fault when something won't work plus they look at you as if you are a numpty! Instead it turns out that it can't work for you! We did techniques and Iain would suggest ways of making them work for us not him. I learnt a lot that day.

 

[LoneRider]

Little off topic, again, but I wonder how great it would be if several FMA organizations (Doce Pares/etc...) all collaborated to train and prepare select fighters for an MMA promotion of any kind. I'd say they'd create some good fighters, but getting said organizations (or large group of Filipinos) to agree on anything would be like herding cats.

Disclaimer: I am Filipino. Raised in the States, yes, but I am Filipino and getting any group of my relatives to agree on anything is like herding cats, without the border collie's assistance. I meant no racial slurs with that last statement.

I would love to see a group of FMA and MMA trained Filipino fighters compete and do well a la Pacquio in any MMA promotion. It'd bring great attention to our native fighting arts and be a great source of cultural pride for our people.

 

[ap Oweyn]

1) I agree. And I don't want to sound like I'm picking on MMA, because those same boneheads can be found in pretty much every art.

Oh I didn't get the impression you were picking on anyone. Don't worry.

Watch from 2:20 on. So basically what you're saying is, is that if he was lower, bending more with the knees, that wouldn't have happened? Personally, I don't think that Jim thought that the Kajukenbo guy would've had the defense that he did. As for experience, I think a 5-1 record is a pretty good start.

I think you're right that he didn't expect that guy to have the defense. But Jimmy was also pretty fatigued, that being his third opponent in a row. He bent at the waist, presenting his back. He also didn't "shoot" in the sense that there was no overwhelming forward motion. He just kinda flopped around the guy's waist. (This is no disrespect to Jimmy Smith. I wouldn't have gotten that far.)

The guy was also absurdly tall and knew how to sprawl. He successfully sprawls before dropping the elbow. Whereas most of the "I'd just drop the elbow on his spine" arguments I've heard reject the necessity of learning to sprawl so you can retain your structure long enough to drop an elbow.

But yeah, if he'd bent at the knee, then he would have presented his shoulders and kept his upper body more upright as he shot. At least, that's what I've seen in pure wrestling. Mind you, in a format that allows knees and so on, that also presents its own hazards.

I think you and I agree more than we disagree.

Not a doubt in my mind about that, mate.

Thanks!


Stuart

 

[Ronin74]

LOL, but how old does it make you feel though when you've seen all these crazes come and go then return!

LOL... It ranks up there with an older customer and I talking about 8-tracks, and 20-something co-workers looking at me in confusion.

 

[Ronin74]

Little off topic, again, but I wonder how great it would be if several FMA organizations (Doce Pares/etc...) all collaborated to train and prepare select fighters for an MMA promotion of any kind. I'd say they'd create some good fighters, but getting said organizations (or large group of Filipinos) to agree on anything would be like herding cats.

Disclaimer: I am Filipino. Raised in the States, yes, but I am Filipino and getting any group of my relatives to agree on anything is like herding cats, without the border collie's assistance. I meant no racial slurs with that last statement.

I would love to see a group of FMA and MMA trained Filipino fighters compete and do well a la Pacquio in any MMA promotion. It'd bring great attention to our native fighting arts and be a great source of cultural pride for our people.

Unfortunately, your disclaimer sort of sums it up. I'm not trying to paint us in a negative light, but for the most part, our culture tends to switch gears when it's in a competitive spotlight, and I've been told by my parents, aunts and uncles that Filipinos already tend to be competitive in the first place.

Invite us to a BBQ and we're good company, but ask us who's better at BBQ-ing and instantly it's a competition... LOL