Fights At the Bar

Casey_Sutherland

Orange Belt
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
78
Reaction score
2
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
You've seen it in movies, and 10 to 1 you've seen it in real life. Drunk people with massive egos push people out of the way, fueled by alcohol and ready to try and impress someone. I recently, out of my control was in a barfight. Because of my training, I was able to protect myself and immobolize the person from attacking my friends or myself any further. In a bar situation what would you do? Do you fight further and risk other people joining in? I am just curious of others peoples responses to these situations. Some food for thought

"He who hesitates Meditates in a horizontal position."
 

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
Casey_Sutherland said:
You've seen it in movies, and 10 to 1 you've seen it in real life. Drunk people with massive egos push people out of the way, fueled by alcohol and ready to try and impress someone. I recently, out of my control was in a barfight. Because of my training, I was able to protect myself and immobolize the person from attacking my friends or myself any further. In a bar situation what would you do? Do you fight further and risk other people joining in? I am just curious of others peoples responses to these situations. Some food for thought

"He who hesitates Meditates in a horizontal position."

How many people are involved?? Its important to be aware of your surroundings. Any time you're in a situation where there is the potential for mult. attackers, being aware is key.

Are there weapons? This is also another important thing to keep in mind.

IMO, doing everything you possibly can to get away from the situation, should be first and foremost on the list. I certainly would not stand around to prove something if i had the chance to make an escape.

Mike
 

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
113
Location
Dana Point, CA
It depends. What is your desired outcome? What is your environment? How many are there, where are they positioned, and what resources are at your disposal (that could be anything from a buddy on your side, to a bouncer, to a chair).

I've been in many a tango. I've also walked away, because analysis of the potential outcome was weighted heavily in the other guys' favor (strategically).

There is no easy answer. There never should be.

Regards,

Dr. Dave
 

bayonet

Orange Belt
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
62
Reaction score
3
Location
Kahului, Maui
Well at this point of my existance I stay away from bars but just keep in mind that in our present day and age our justice system seems to let off the morons who start fights and then lets them sue us when we open a can of lightning on him. Otherwise, all I can say is that the vast majority of violence I have seen in my life was 99% alcohol related. But to anwser the question, walk away if possible. If you can't by all means protect yourself and those who can't protect themselves. Hopefully WE all on Martial Talk are not like the no testicle gentlemen in the pizza joint in Ohio watching a guy get his clock cleaned. I don't know about you men but I would be willing to go out on a limb here and say the majority of us would be throwing down on that street thug. Just my 3 cents
icon7.gif
 

Paul Genge

Green Belt
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
147
Reaction score
5
The vast majority of confrontations have some sort of build up. If you are unable to avoid the fight by leaving you should pay attention to you surroundings. (What weapons are to hand, possible numbers of attackers, obstacles, exits etc...)

Having done that you have to remain calm and move smoothley in a manner that is not going to cause your opponent to feel threatened. The reason for this is that when a person squares upto you their mind is on a hair trigger between all out attack and remaining in control. If your movement is sharp, tense or jerky they are likely to subconciously see it as a threat and lash out. A large number of glassings happen this way. The attacker is often holding a glass or bottle at the time of the incident and simply forgets about it. Their mind becomes pre-occupied with other things. When the victim moves sharpley the attacker reacts instinctivley lashing out with the bottle.

I have been in several bar style fights as a LEO. You quickley have to learn to identify the two warring sides and take the ring leaders out of the situation. Without them the hostility looses some of it's pace and then allows for negotiation to be used to pick up the pieces. The diificulty arises when the people fighting decide they like the cops less than each other and they then turn on you.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk
 

Drac

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
143
Location
Ohio
Casey_Sutherland said:
Do you fight further and risk other people joining in? I am just curious of others peoples responses to these situations. Some food for thought."
I spent 6 years as a "bouncer" and now I avoid bars..My opinion is that once you're safe and your date or friends are safe get the HELL out of there..
 

FearlessFreep

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
3,088
Reaction score
98
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Depends on the club, I suppose. I'm a musician and I play in clubs, but most of the places I play are fairly respectable. I play a place now that is a lounge/club in a hotel and there is no bouncer (but I guess they could call hotel security) and the crowd is always very well behaved. It's in a hotel and we get overflow from a nearby convention center, so the people are usually there for a few drinks and some socializing.

The other places I've played have all been clubs/bars with a strong musical theme or draw so the crowd usually has an interest in the music going on and have usually been well behaved
 

Zepp

Master of Arts
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
1,561
Reaction score
22
Location
The woods of Marin County, California, USA
I've found that the best protection is just to hang out in nicer bars or clubs, and always have some friends with you. On the occasions when potential violence has sought me out anyways, I've always been able to diffuse the situation with words before things got out of hand. In my experience, alcohol-related violence is easy to avoid unless a friend of yours is causing it.
 
T

Troy Ostapiw/Canada

Guest
I belive self-preservation is the key. It depends on your enviorment. some good tips are stay away from bars. If you can't stay away, don't drink too much, chances are if someone has a problem later in the night their reaction time will be delayed. Utilize shielding and self-preservation concepts ie. verbal judo, and de-escalation through verball interaction, would be best.

Know your enviorment. If your fighting to protect you ego, that's a bad fight to pick. If you have to protect your self or others then you simply do what you need to do. It would be best to be fimillar with you state laws on self-defence.

Bar fights can turn bad real fast, ego's get hurt, people get stupid, and everybody has friends at the bar. You may beat the bad guy this week, but hell be back next week or the week after that with some of his buddies. The whole situation is bad news. It becomes a vicious cycle.

Concepts where you can act fast, staying on your feet would be best in a bar situation. Maintain you mobility, preserve, and prevent violence, find a quick exit once you have reacted,and if you have to act...... make it count.
Troy
 

sgtmac_46

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
4,753
Reaction score
189
I tend to avoid bars no days, but if I go, I go with a couple of friends I know I can trust to watch my back. I also tend to go to bars where no one else knows me and them, so if we have to duck out the back in the case of trouble, that way no one knows my name or where I live (nothing hurts an LEO career worse than being arrested in the middle of a bar fight.)

That avoids potential law suits too. If he can't ID you, he can't sue you. If I have to fight, i'll hit fast, hit hard and get the hell out as quickly as all of us safely can. It's been a long time since i've had to fight in a bar, though, I try to avoid fights and just have a good time.

Nothing defuses a mad drunk like a beer bottle across the teeth or the bridge of the nose, though. Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action. Then get out in the confusion. Always have an escape plan prepared with the rest of your party, and watch each others back. Three guys working together are more than three times as effective as one. There's power in unity, and there's such thing as a fair fight in a bar. Your buddy gets attacked, smack the attacker from broadside, grab your buddy and run.
 

Adept

Master Black Belt
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
1,225
Reaction score
12
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Zepp said:
In my experience, alcohol-related violence is easy to avoid unless a friend of yours is causing it.
I've found that too. The only time (since my somewhat 'boisterous' youth) that I have been unable to avoid a barfight was when a friend of mine started it when I was out of the room.
 

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
sgtmac_46 said:
I tend to avoid bars no days, but if I go, I go with a couple of friends I know I can trust to watch my back.

Ditto!!! I certianly don't make it a habit to go, but as you said, I'm more comfortable knowing I have another set of eyes!

Mike
 

uglydawg

White Belt
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Location
Beaverton, OR
I'm lucky or unlucky, I work grave so if I do go to a bar it's early in the morning and usually everbodys drinking coffee or not drunk enough to start fights. I don't go on weekend because I don't like crowded places.Joe
 
O

OC Kid

Guest
I agree with the others who said go to nicer bars. I u dont go anymore but when I did and after I got tired of dealing with outta control drunks who like to fight...
I went to bars that had bouncers... I had a problem with a drunken idiot..I told the bouncer.. let him deal with it..that what he gets paid for.
 
T

TonyM.

Guest
I've been in the hospitality business since '65, bartending since 79'. (I started late) There has never been a fight in an establishment that I have been on duty bartending at. You have someone talk to a patron when they start getting loud, Shut them off or ask them to leave as the case may be. When patrons get unruly, I blame management. Overserving or allowing intoxicated people entrance are usually the root causes of altercations in bars.
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Hello, The best answer may be found in the books by "Marc,the animal,Macyoung. He was a bouncer and has lots of experience on this.

We all have ego's and choices , No one wants to go to jail, or the hospital, morgue or injury for life. " Marc" will make you realize what a real fight is all about and how you should talk your way out of it.

He mentions you should not try to win a fight...but to end it as quickly as possible, and leave. Revenge gets alot of people kill/injury later. Avoid getting into fights as much as possible, AWARENESS. ...read his books

You will realize what you are learning in your martial art classes is not enought. .....I am waking up from it! (He wrote several books-read them all!) .......Aloha

PS After you read his books, Your thoughts on fighting will change, and you will find very few people teach how to fight and fight back- real street fighting-no rules-anything goes. Live,die or go to Jail - his books will change you!
 

47MartialMan

Master of Arts
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
31
Location
Gulf States
Being born and raised in New Orleans, Louisiana, the bars back then, and for some time, were flooded by under-agers.

Physical confronation was the norm.

I have to agree with sgtmac_46. Avoidance is the best defense.

If one has to go to such a place, find one with a better setting. Some are just to unsavory.

BTW, this was one of the reasons why I had moved.
 

Nanalo74

Blue Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
237
Reaction score
2
Location
New York
The best defense is not to be there. I avoid bars and clubs like the plague when I'm not working.

I'm a bouncer, and the one thing I notice about barfights is that the guys involved are so focused on each other that they never notice the other guy's friends or the security moving in on them. That works in our favor of course, because we can get our hands on them before they know what happened.

If you do go out drinking, don't go alone, and ALWAYS be aware of your surroundings. If the guy in that Ohio video had been more aware, he would have seen trouble coming. The way the woman was acting, my Spidey sense would have been blaring like a siren. No way the boyfriend would have gotten that close.

To be aware is to be alive.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com
 

ginshun

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
809
Reaction score
26
Location
Merrill, WI
I was actaully witness to a bar fight a few weeks ago. Neither of the two people involved were anyone I knew, and nobody that I was there with was in any danger as far as I could see. The technique I used during the fight was to step to the side when they almost fell on my feet, and then to walk across the room so that I was nowhere near them.
 

47MartialMan

Master of Arts
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
31
Location
Gulf States
Many bar fights, as stated are broken up LONG (emphasis) before it escalates. A bar, is usually the start up of most street confrontations. (Strret confrontations ocur if the fighter happen to escape the ckutches of the bouncers) However, a neighborhood high in crime and a sporting event adds to the numbers.

The worst bar confrontation that I had witnessed, it happened so fast, was as soon as people were walking out, shooting rang off. I think this should be considered, among other chrages, terrorist activity.
 

Latest Discussions

Top