Fighting a stronger opponent

[jfarnsworth]

MichiganTKD: Considering that you believe in mystical tiger auras, you have no right to be so obnoxious and patronizing to littledragon.

From my perspective I've been watching the whole thing from thread to thread. My opinion is that MichiganTKD is trying to teach him things. :asian:

 

[hedgehogey]

And how will that prove that Dillman is a fraud I know GM Dillman and have trained with him on several ocassions and I currently train with one of his top three I know that he is not a fraud and there is no proof that you can show that will prove otherwise

PPKO

Video proof: http://www.wijg.net/tasty.rm
This guy claimed to be under dillman.
Mirror here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12660&highlight=dillman

Dillman seminar reviews:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10835
http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=433499&FID=1&p=99

Particurlarly interesing passage:

Go to http://www.dillman.com/videos.asp and you can download 22 short clips of Dillman K.O.'ing true believers.
Notice the following: K.O. victims reaching back or slapping the mat to break their fall. Keeping their heads up to prevent them from striking the floor. People placing themselves into the sitted, crossed-legged position they use to revive the victim. People propping themselve up on an arm after being K.O'd. People who don't go down at all and have to be pulled down. Remember these are the true believers!

James randi blasts pressure point "fighting":
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8335

Some of PPKO's rather ridiculous claims from martialartsplanet: (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15448)

Kiai Jitsu using sounds for fighting/healing you can either look up Gary Rooks or go to www.kiaijitsu.com which is a products page by Song Pak I would trust either of them go to the seminars as they can teach you more than I can with Kiai.

Jodoryu Jujitsu is using the emotions of your opponent against them it was developed by T.A. Frazer I can't discuss to much on this until book #5 of the Dillman series comes out, for respect of T.A. Frazer. You could go to www.dillman.com and try and have T.A. Frazer do a seminar or check to see if he is holding any seminars in your area

PPKO
I hope you understand

Dillman affiliates claiming the ability to KO with a yell:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6622&highlight=dillman

 

[ppko]

Video proof: http://www.wijg.net/tasty.rm
This guy claimed to be under dillman.
Mirror here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12660&highlight=dillman


Ok so a guy messes up and this proves Dillman a fraud how



Dillman seminar reviews:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10835
http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=433499&FID=1&p=99

Particurlarly interesing passage:


So other people don't like Dillman ooh you are really doing good tell me something I don't know when you're as popular a Martial Artist as George than you are bound to have the jelousy out there



James randi blasts pressure point "fighting":
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8335


What does this prove oh wait I know ..............................................................nothing


Some of PPKO's rather ridiculous claims from martialartsplanet: (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15448)


Have you tried these I thought not so do not judge until you have been a part I have made no outragous claims the Kiai Jitsu has been a part of the Martial Arts for hundreds of years. Jodoryu Jujitsu is a different story, but I can understand your fear in attending a seminar where you would be proven wrong and a video clip of you ending up on this forum.



Dillman affiliates claiming the ability to KO with a yell:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6622&highlight=dillman Like I said before people mess some points don't work the on everyone sometimes you are off on the point big deal you have proved nothing with these claims.

PPKO

 

[kenpo tiger]

From my perspective I've been watching the whole thing from thread to thread. My opinion is that MichiganTKD is trying to teach him things. :asian:

I agree, but sometimes the delivery isn't exactly pedagogical. :asian:

 

[ppko]

Hedgehogey,

I forgot to address people reaching back or slapping for the floor if you know anything about what we consider KO's than you would know that there are three levels that we go off of.
A stun to where the person is off balanced due to dissyness.
Where they fall but are not all the way out.
Finally whre they are completely out.

PPKO

 

[lonecoyote]

about wanting larger people's opinions, I'm six foot and about 245, muscle but with a pot gut. I have trouble with lateral (side to side) movement. If I blitz and don't catch you because you can move side to side quickly and then are fast in and out of the gap I'll have a lot of trouble. Size and strength are definitely advantages for me in the clinch, and the one thing you don't want to do is get backed up against the ropes or a wall (I've noticed that it happens when people are trying to be too cute, and dance, focusing only on me and not ring or room awareness) or in a corner, because I won't let you out. The ground is a good place for a big guy too, with just a little technique, because I can use weight to pressure or smother.

 

[lonecoyote]

One more thing, that last guy that really toasted me was a sport TKD guy, like Littledragon, because he had that movement laterally and in and out of the gap. couldn't get a handle on him.

 

[tshadowchaser]

hedgehogey
I am not going to take side in this discussion but I want to say that Mr. Dillman had legit credential in the martial arts before he started teaching pressure points. There for to call him a fraud could be a libel statement.
Finding a few clips neither proves nor disproves anything except that the clips where made. You may see stuff that looks hooky or fabricated but if your not there its only your thoughts.
Unless you know a person and their history calling them a fraud on the open internet, while they are not a member and can not defend themselves, only shows your willingness to attack what can not defend itself.
If you feel that strongly about Mr. Dillman why not go visit him and find out for yourself.

 

[hedgehogey]

Well, I have no money for him to take. But if you'd rather me remove the f-word for the safety of the site I can do that.

 

[mcjon77]

It is best to fight a big guy if he is the initiator/agressor in the fight. If he is the initiator/agressor, make him come to you. If you stay just outside his reach, and he is the one who wants to fight, he will keep coming at you. Keep moving, using your speed and endurance. It would probably be best to stick with jabs and backfists for hand movements and quick roundhouse kicks and side kicks to the knee and shin. The object of the punches/kicks isn't to knock him out, rather it is to chip away at him, further slowing him down, while taking away his will to pursue the fight any more.

Also, the advice on lateral movement is a good one. simply moving back probably won't suffice, because even though you are faster than him, your probably not faster than him running away straight backward if he his runing towards you straight forward. I like the idea of moving in a sort of arc motion. Imagine a pendulum moving back and forth, only after every arc, the rope gets a little longer. This will force him to move both forward and laterally. Also, don't move laterally in only one direction (going only clockwise or counter clockwise) it is much less taxing on him. if you switch directions he has to go against the momentum he has generated to go in the oposite direction. So will you, but since you are lighter and have more endurance, it will be less taxing on you than him.

One thing to watch out for is the charge. If he is getting frustrated/tired, big guys will often just charge you straight on in the hopes of overwhelming you. The best technique for this is strong lateral movement. If you move fast enough and far enough to the side, his momentumn will carry him past you and you will find yourself somewhat behind him. From here, you could take the opportunity to attack him from behind in the knees, legs and lower back (don't bother hitting his upper back/lats If he is muscled), or you could use this opportunity to get more distance/run away. I recomend the latter.

As to why I am letting the cat out of the bag on how to beat big guys if I'm one of them, notice that almost none of what I have said will work if the big guy is not the agressor/initiator/attacker. Since I never have been, nor ever plan on being the agressor/initiator/attacker I don't mind helping people learn how to overcome larger/stronger opponents who are preying uppon them.

Jon

 

[kenpo tiger]

It is best to fight a big guy if he is the initiator/agressor in the fight. If he is the initiator/agressor, make him come to you. If you stay just outside his reach, and he is the one who wants to fight, he will keep coming at you. Keep moving, using your speed and endurance. It would probably be best to stick with jabs and backfists for hand movements and quick roundhouse kicks and side kicks to the knee and shin. The object of the punches/kicks isn't to knock him out, rather it is to chip away at him, further slowing him down, while taking away his will to pursue the fight any more.

Also, the advice on lateral movement is a good one. simply moving back probably won't suffice, because even though you are faster than him, your probably not faster than him running away straight backward if he his runing towards you straight forward. I like the idea of moving in a sort of arc motion. Imagine a pendulum moving back and forth, only after every arc, the rope gets a little longer. This will force him to move both forward and laterally. Also, don't move laterally in only one direction (going only clockwise or counter clockwise) it is much less taxing on him. if you switch directions he has to go against the momentum he has generated to go in the oposite direction. So will you, but since you are lighter and have more endurance, it will be less taxing on you than him.

One thing to watch out for is the charge. If he is getting frustrated/tired, big guys will often just charge you straight on in the hopes of overwhelming you. The best technique for this is strong lateral movement. If you move fast enough and far enough to the side, his momentumn will carry him past you and you will find yourself somewhat behind him. From here, you could take the opportunity to attack him from behind in the knees, legs and lower back (don't bother hitting his upper back/lats If he is muscled), or you could use this opportunity to get more distance/run away. I recomend the latter.

As to why I am letting the cat out of the bag on how to beat big guys if I'm one of them, notice that almost none of what I have said will work if the big guy is not the agressor/initiator/attacker. Since I never have been, nor ever plan on being the agressor/initiator/attacker I don't mind helping people learn how to overcome larger/stronger opponents who are preying uppon them.

Jon

Thank you.
I've found that most large men I have trained with in ma are very aware of their size and strength and tend to be good natured, cooperative, and very controlled when working with us 'little ones'. I am certain that that takes a lot of focus.
Just out of curiousity - if you are fighting someone your size and skill, how WOULD you approach it?? I'd be interested to hear it.:asian:

 

[shesulsa]

Good question - my workout partner is 6'6" and weighs every bit of 320. He says I'd be a good candidate for a larger opponent because I have a long reach and hit harder than most guys, but his reach EASILY exceeds mine - so I've been told to get in close and low - but....

A) In a sparring situation, that will never score me points.
B) All they have to do is get a bear hug on me and I'm toast.

I did go up against a large guy in real life - a security guard (ahem) just as large as my classmate (above). I slapped him in the face, scoop-kicked him in the groin and turned and RAN. I had no martial arts training at the time. I was lucky - I don't think he expected it, AND he was a slow dude.

Now, my partner moves like a little guy - he has some body fat, to be sure (so do I), but he has a great deal of power and muscle behind that armor. The higher body fat percentage means he won't feel pressure points and tendon strikes must be so precise, you'll never get the angle because of his coverage. He moves laterally and circles on the balls of his feet.

Suggestions (other than a .45)?

 

[MichiganTKD]

Some years ago, one of our black belts fought a guy named Tiny at his test. Now, when a guy is named Tiny you know he's no lightweight. Anyway, Big guys tend to be slow, and Tiny was no exception. He attacked, and the black belt instinctively did was he had been taught to do against a big guy-he countered with a high roundhouse. Big guys will often have their hands down out of a false of security: They think they cannot be contacted. Well, Tiny was caught dead center with a high roundhouse to his jowl. It split his jowl from ear to ear, with blood all over the place, and Tiny had to be rushed to the hospital. Fortunately he survived.
What we were taught was this: Big guys have that extra layer of protection in their midsection, but their head is the same as yours. So unless you have incredible powerful middle kicks, a high kick will work better. And it is better as stated before, to let them come to you and then respond. Roundhouse and front kicks will not work because they are not strong enough. Side kicks work better because they have more power.
Several years ago I had the same experience, but the result wasn't nearly as bad. I was sparring against a very big guy. He did a front kick, I countered with a back roundhouse kick that almost took his head off.
I don't recommend doing a high kick off the bat. Play with him a little. See how he responds. Then, when you know he has gotten cocky, finish with a high kick.

 

[kenpo tiger]

What we were taught was this: Big guys have that extra layer of protection in their midsection, but their head is the same as yours. So unless you have incredible powerful middle kicks, a high kick will work better. And it is better as stated before, to let them come to you and then respond...

I don't recommend doing a high kick off the bat. Play with him a little. See how he responds. Then, when you know he has gotten cocky, finish with a high kick.

Thank you for the anecdotes. My only problem is my height, so I don't know how effective a high kick would be on a tall man. I'd probably end up in his mid-section! Agreed that it's better to let him be the aggressor.

Can you empty your inbox for messages? I tried sending you something and it bounced. Thanks. KT