Fencing and the Martial Arts.

[arnisador]

The Filipino arts were strongly influenced by fencing, as was garrote larense and la canne. They are sometimes considered fencing with the stick. Jeet Kune Do uses many elements of fencing strategy.

What other non-fencing arts were influenced by the ideas and methods of Western fencing (as opposed to the influence of kenjutsu in Japanese arts)?

 

[Baoquan]

ignore this post.

 

[tmanifold]

I have noticed a revival, of late, in western arts. Things like old Boxing, La savate, french and english cane fighting, to name a few. I would guess many of these had fencing influences.


Tony

 

[Samurai]

As it is really NOT a martial art......BUT Hollywood Stunt and Fight arragners look to fencing for many of their movements.

Thanks
Jeremy Bays

 

[Old Warrior]

"As it is really NOT a martial art......BUT Hollywood Stunt and Fight arragners look to fencing for many of their movements."

In a world where kids have 9mm, 20 shot handguns, no martial art is martial enough. In a duel using epees, having the martial skill seems pretty relevent. Lastly, with my 3" pocket knife I can lunge fast enough and cover enough ground to drop anyone, except someone who accepted the possibility that I was coming and who moved with lightning speed; which is highly unlikely in a street mugger. Of course, only a fool would challenge a criminal with a gun or intentionally engage in a knife fight where escape was an option.

 

[arnisador]

I've wondered this before--just how much practical, modern self-defense skill does one gain from fencing? The footwork and distance are obvious, and the taking of the initiative--and I know it heavily influenced Jeet Kune Do.

 

[Old Warrior]

"just how much practical, modern self-defense skill does one gain from fencing? The footwork and distance are obvious, and the taking of the initiative"

Probably, not too much, in and of itself. I come to fencing after a decade of Shotokan Karate. After 15 years of fencing my reflexes are still okay and I have a highly developed sense of timing and distance. But, fencing doesn't tell you what to do with that timing and distance in a street fight. However, fencing has kept alive the old karate basics and I am attuned to "combat type" situations. The mindset of an epee fencer is that someone is trying to kill you and you better focus. That is invaluable in a stressful encounter.

I think a good fencer would be a super candidate to learn self defense arts. But, in and of itself (absent a blade in your hand) fencing wouldn't be much use to you if someone wanted to punch your lights out.

 

[arnisador]

The concepts are applicable but it takes extra work--fair enough.

 

[twinkletoes]

I fenced for about 6 months on a competitive university team, and I found that it brought a few things to my martial arts skills:

-It made me MUCH more aware of my footwork and distancing.

-It got me thinking about the relationship between the weapon (attacking arm, leg, etc.) and the body

-It improved my rhythm, timing, and ability to use these against an opponent.

-It improved my conditioning (our fencing workouts were BRUTAL)

-It improved my flexibility (you don't want to know)

-It made me feel better about how expensive I thought the martial arts were

-It got me a cool mask that I might start using for stick-sparring

In all seriousness, I found it really fun, but without being coupled to an empty-hand art, it wouldn't stand alone for self defense these days.

Best,

~TT

 

[Old Warrior]

"...without being coupled to an empty-hand art, it wouldn't stand alone for self defense these days."

Very true; but then, a .22 pistol in the hand of a 12 year old makes your empty handed self defense moves pretty irrelevant also.

What I have found is that fencing keeps the reflexes sharp, polishes an awareness of an opponents body and direction of attack and underscores the importance of distance and timing.
Nevertheless, fencing has no concept of the use of force to vital targets and the footwork is the antithesis of everything taught in the martial arts. I think knife combat could be easily imparted to a good fencer and that he could become lethal - quickly.

 

[twinkletoes]

Yeah, weapons of mass destruction do the same thing.

Some people have combined fencing experience with filipino knife systems for a really unbeatable combo. For an example, check out Ray Floro of Australia, who both fences and teaches Kalis Ilustrimo. I've only seen little video clips, but he seems to have excellent timing, distnacing, and awareness.

~TT

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
the footwork is the antithesis of everything taught in the martial arts.

Because it is so linear, you mean?

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
I think a good fencer would be a super candidate to learn self defense arts.

A good friend of mine was a Texas State Collegiate Fencing Champion before he finally signed up for Kenpo.

He says that off the bat he was dramatically superior to his classmates in sparring because, as he said, sparring is all about distance and timing and he had that down cold.

He went on to get better. He and I were never in the same studio unfortunately.

Just an anecdote to support Old Warrior's theory.

 

[Old Warrior]

It's more than being just linear. All combat is on a 4' wide strip and the opponent is ALWAYS in front of you. Also, the attack is always begun by thrusting the hand to full extension and the body springing behind. There is virtually no lateral stability and recovery from a full lunge is somewhat slow because of the elongated body position. Infighting is minimal because of the length of the weapons and the rules do not allow for body contact so you don't practice much for in close work. If jostling were allowed you'd end up on your tail. Basically the footwork is just lunge like an arrow either straight or to the side (off the strip), at which time the action is halted to reposition the players on the strip. The footwork is designed to maximize the performance, within the rules. Change the rules, even slightly, and the footwork is worthless.

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by arnisador
I've wondered this before--just how much practical, modern self-defense skill does one gain from fencing? The footwork and distance are obvious, and the taking of the initiative--and I know it heavily influenced Jeet Kune Do.

Actual fighting techniques? Not much.

But, balance, timing, looking for that split second opening and exploiting it, not to mention learning to read body language seem to be skills you can aquire.

It can teach you some raw basics that nca be adapted to most weapon arts, I think. Not too certain on how much translates to empty-hands.