Female anatomy and rear chokes

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - Technical Discussion' started by hemlock2010, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Jul 14, 2012 #1
    hemlock2010

    hemlock2010 White Belt

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    I'm struggling to learn to do rear chokes (when I'm the attacker), and I think it's because there's too much of me in the place where my opponent is supposed to be. Is there a work-around for this?
     
  2. Jul 14, 2012 #2
    Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Push the back of the head forward, if Youre using Your other hand to hold Your wrist, or just leaving it pointed up.
     
  3. Jul 14, 2012 #3
    Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    Do the choke at the side of your body, with the side of your body against the defender's back. Wrap one arm around the neck and pass the other between the back of their head and your body, grasping your shoulder. The arm around the neck grasps the forearm of the arm between you. Recognise that groin shots are a common starting point for defenses, so you may need to angle your body and or legs appropriately.



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  4. Jul 14, 2012 #4
    Bill Mattocks

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    Remember that the choke isn't a straight pull back - that might choke someone, alright, but by cutting off their air supply and crushing their windpipe. A proper choke is closing the carotid artery briefly (as I was taught).

    This requires that the person applying the choke use the crook of their arm as the fulcrum, which should be approximately under the chokee's chin. It is the forearm bone and the bicep that together apply pressure to the sides of the neck where the arteries are located. This necessitates that the person applying the choke be slightly turned away - removing the problem as you described.

    It can also be difficult to apply to someone taller, which means kicking out those knees to make the person drop, then squatting or kneeling over them as they sit on their knees to apply the choke.

    That's how I was taught. I was a Marine MP, I did not learn that in my MA training. We used to do chokes, not allowed anymore. But when applied correctly, it takes like 3 seconds to render someone unconscious.
     
  5. Jul 14, 2012 #5
    Bill Mattocks

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    For what it may be worth, if the person being choked gets their chin down under your elbow, you're not going to be choking them. Yes you want to point their chin down, but over your own elbow. I'm sure you knew that, just expanding on it a bit.
     
  6. Jul 14, 2012 #6
    Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's exactly how I was taught plus it's not a 'strength' thing, taking a deep breath and expanding your chest makes the space containing the chokee's ( do like that word!) neck smaller so the larger chest doesn't make it more difficult.
    We are told this choke is a 'blood' choke as you said it closes the carotid artery as opposed to the 'choking' choke.
     
  7. Jul 14, 2012 #7
    Josh Oakley

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    ...as opposed to an "wind" choke, maybe?

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  8. Jul 14, 2012 #8
    Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    I sometimes forget that such information isnt as obvious to everyone else :)
     
  9. Jul 14, 2012 #9
    Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    We usually demo them both, the 'blood' choke uke just slides unconcious while the 'choke' uke makes funny noises and thrashes around a lot first............:ultracool
     
  10. Jul 14, 2012 #10
    Josh Oakley

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    I understand the difference between the two. I was supplying term for a choke that focuses on the windpipe that would be a bit more descriptive than " 'choke' choke".

    That way the comparison would make more sense to the uninitiated. The comparison would be between a blood choke and a wind choke (or an air choke).

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  11. Jul 14, 2012 #11
    Bill Mattocks

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    For what it's worth, chokes of all kinds are dangerous. I really do not recommend them in general. The police in most places no longer perform them for that reason. I have done chokes and had them done on me. It's fast when done right - you go out very quickly. Sometimes when people wake up, they flop around, we used to call it 'doing the chicken'. Sometimes they don't wake up. Brain damage can also occur from both types of choke. Just sayin', word to the wise and all that.
     
  12. Jul 14, 2012 #12
    Tez3

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    The little smiley at the end of my post denoted it was a light hearted reply to your attempt to correct us when I said 'choke choke' which in turn was a play on words.
     
  13. Jul 14, 2012 #13
    Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

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    Oh.

    Let it be known that sarcasm and I are more acquaintances than friends.
     
  14. Jul 15, 2012 #14
    Big Don

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    Really loving the terms Choke choke and chokee :)
     
  15. Jul 15, 2012 #15
    Tez3

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    It wasn't sarcasm. It was just a 'funny'.
     
  16. Jul 15, 2012 #16
    Chris Parker

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    The strict terminology (at least, as far as our legal system defines them here) are that a choke is against the windpipe, and a strangle is against the blood flow (carotid, typically). That's the simplest way to differentiate them, I feel.

    With regards to the OP, when I go in for a strangle, the first thing I do is push the lower back forward, as I get my arm around the neck, pulling them back, and increasing the pressure, as well as putting the strangle on faster (using their own body weight to apply pressure against the neck). From there, push the head forward with either your hand, your shoulder, or your own head. This form puts your shoulder into the opponent, but not lower than that, so should alleviate any problems with anatomy getting in the way... at least, I haven't had any such issues brought up by my female students.
     
  17. Jul 22, 2012 #17
    Doc

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    It also might be a good idea to define what it is we are attempting to do, because the varying methods require different mechanics and execution. Simply; "A choke stifles oxygenation through restrictions of air flow, a strangle stifles oxygenation through restrictions of blood flow." - Doc
     
  18. Jul 24, 2012 #18
    Gentle Fist

    Gentle Fist Master Black Belt

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    For a rear naked choke it should not make a difference if your arms are in the correct position.
     

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