Facebook Martial Artists

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bill Mattocks, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep. Current unified MMA rules favor strikers in a number of ways - probably because fans like to see striking more.
     
  2. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    1. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent
    2. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent
    3. Stomping a grounded opponent.
    This lets a lot of people basically plop gaurd making the striker either have to go to the floor with them, or just kick at their legs which won't really do much damage. They can't circle around their legs and soccer kick the ribs because that's banned too. Even though the rules don't mention that here.

    The scoring system is also heavily biased towards grappling and this permits many grapplers to essentially just shove their bodies in their opponents close quarters. The grappler can hold the oponent against the cage for minutes on end while the striker is prohibited from using "rabbit punches and elbows and knees" to the guys back and head which are the most vulnerable areas while in this position.

    The way the rules are designed enables the infamous "lay and pray" strategy which plagues the sport and in general makes it boring. The fact that a grappler can essentially just "control" the opponent by keeping them on the floor despite the fact that they never landed any successful submissions or strikes from this position means relatively easy and safer strategy for the grappler.

    I'm not complaining here but these are just my observations.
     
  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    What the hell have you been watching?

    What exactly do you know about the rules in MMA?
     
  4. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    Been watching UFC as stated in OP that's where I got an idea of the rules for it. Those are taken from their official rules. I haven't watched it lately because I find UFC boring. I'll spare us both the time and say that when you questioned my knowledge of the rules the first time I did a quick Wikipedia search of them.

    Now I know Wikipedia is frowned upon but I check the references and they are taken from the nevada state athletic commission which is one of the three organizations who dictate the rules of the UFC.

    I know what MMA is. There are two definitions of it though. Modern Martial Arts and Mixed Martial Arts. Mixed Martial Arts is a very loose term and pretty much means fighting or training in more than one fighting style. Modern Martial Arts in my opinion is an idiotic term because more than often the styles labeled as Modern Martial Arts are anything but modern, and have been around for centuries.

    Boxing for example has been called a modern art. Like seriously? Boxing has been around since the Greco Roman era. I guess 2000+ years is recent time to the people calling it a modern art.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    1. The following acts constitute fouls in a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts and may result in penalties, at the discretion of thereferee, if committed:
    2. Butting with the head
    3. Eye gouging of any kind
    4. Biting
    5. Spitting at an opponent
    6. Hair pulling
    7. Fish hooking
    8. Groin attacks of any kind
    9. Putting a finger into any orifice or any cut or laceration of an opponent
    10. Small joint manipulation
    11. Striking downward using the point of the elbow
    12. Striking to the spine or the back of the head
    13. Kicking to the kidney with a heel
    14. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea
    15. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh
    16. Grabbing the clavicle
    17. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent
    18. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent
    19. Stomping a grounded opponent
    20. Holding the fence
    21. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent
    22. Using abusive language in fenced ring/fighting area
    23. Engaging in any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes injury to an opponent
    24. Attacking an opponent on or during the break
    25. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee
    26. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the round
    27. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury
    28. Throwing opponent out of ring/fighting area
    29. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee
    30. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck
    31. Interference by the corner
    32. Applying any foreign substance to the hair or body to gain an advantage
     
  6. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    So our knowledge of it is the same then.
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    What? I don't know if you realise it but you said in your post that these moves are legal ie it's because of these rules that they .....

    You didn't say that because these moves are not legal, you posted the rules up without any comment about legality. You only mention that 'soccer kicking' is illegal.
     
  8. BujinBos

    BujinBos Yellow Belt

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    In regards to the OP, I've seen this idea before the internet. I remember some decades ago at least one person in my home town that wore a "silk" jacket with martial art "stuff" on it; dragon, yin-yang, etc. I do seem to recall he had some training but wasn't actively practicing anymore (though there was a dojo in our town). But he was The Martial Arts Guy, and really projected that image.

    I guess with the connectivity the internet provides we get to see these "The Martial Arts Guys"'s more easily than just hanging out down at the corner store.

    Thank you Internet...I think.
     
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  9. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    No I never said they were legal. I said that the rules prohibit strikers from doing many things that give grappling a much harder time. The fact that knees and kicks to the head and stomps are illegal to do on a person who puts themselves on the ground gives the grappler I safer area to be.

    There is also the fact that hitting your opponents back is illegal, kidney punching is what you will get in trouble for and the kidneys take up a huge majority of the back. You are also not allowed to headbutt at all, which again. Makes it safer for the grappler to well, be a grappler.

    The rules by the looks of it seem to be set up so that in order to get off the ground you are forced to so it by playing their game, which is grappling, something that is their strength. How many rules are set up to prohibit the grappler from grappling and how many rules prohibit the striker from striking or using various striking techniques? For example you are not allowed to grappled your opponents wrists or hands, a common tactic in many striking styles to lock the joints and or open up your opponent to be struck.
     
  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You didn't say whether they were legal or illegal, you posted them up without reference then went on to say that it was because of them ...etc etc.

    I ref MMA and well as judge and coach and I think you are mistaken if you think that the rules actually favour grapplers or strikers. It's up to a fighter to have the right techniques to combat his opponent, the use of rules doesn't actually figure much into fighter's or coach's game plans.
    I have seen many fights which never went to ground at all during the fight, I've seen many fights where it was ground only fighting, they didn't strike at all and of course I've seen many where there is a good mixture of both.
    Overthinking the rules of an MMA fight would be a mistake, fighters know the rules, it doesn't lead them to do anything different from what they'd do anyway, the deciding factor in a fight is your opponent, it is she/he that defines your tactics not the rules.

    I'm not sure why you think you can't 'grapple' the wrists or hands? You are, the 'small joint manipulation' rule covers fingers and toes. Hitting the back isn't illegal either, hitting the spine is. You cannot heel kick to the kidneys but you can kick normally and punch, you can also punch/kick to the liver which is actually more effective.
     
  11. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    In the rules you put up it said punching to the kidneys are illegal, the kidneys happen to covor up a majority of the back due to the size of the kidneys and the liver is in the front of the body. If you are grappled you more than likely won't be able to strike the front of the body because there wont be enough space to strike.

    This is just an example of if you are grappled many of the strikes taught in many forms of martial arts to break the grapple, are essentially innefective here because if you do them you will be hit with a foul. Since the rules cause things like this to happen it causes more of the grappling arts a safer experience, since many of the striking techniques designed to help you get out are unable to be used.

    Another example here is an easy armbar escape. With your other arm grab one of their toes bend it sideways or against the joint. This is of course against the rules which forces the striker to use predominantly grappling methods to get out of the armbar, and this makes performing the armbar much safer for the grappler as that is one less thing the opponent is allowed to do to them.

    Like I said I am not complaining here but when it comes to this mentality that UFC and in general MMA rules promote some sort of "ultimate contest of what art is the best." I just can't take that seriously because the rules are very against many fighting styles.
     
  12. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, read no 13, no heel kicks to the kidney. They don't actually take up that much of the back being only fist sized. Liver is more to the side than at the front of the body itself.

    I don't think you have a very good understanding of what an MMA fight is, no reason why you should if you don't do it but I don't think you can say the rules do what you think they do unless you a much better understanding of them and of how fighters plan their fights.
     
  13. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    I will never lie and I will be honest with you. I have also stated that these are my opinions so they are by no means objective. My MMA experience is watching UFC, which as of lately I don't because I get tired of seeing hugging matches. I spar sometimes with MMA guys, none are superstars by any means though.

    I been called an MMA guy, but I honestly don't know how to react to that. I just kind of nod and shrug about it, I do kenpo and Judo and some Escrima. Not sure what that makes me other than a martial artist. The only competitions I have been in were would resemble kyokyushin competitions. Mostly striking, takedowns and holds were there but the fight never continued on the floor. They just counted for points only.
     
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  14. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    #11 is stupid. Why the hell not?
     
  15. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    I could have sworn that was allowed. A guy here even used that as examble on for the classic lissing contest. On "Why MMA is the more brutal than TMA." But I guess not. It's probably so the guys head won't be split open.
     
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  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you can watch fights from other promotions as well as watching amateur and semi pro fights often there's a lot more skill shown in these than the UFC type shows because there's less money involved, less pressure to make a show for the spectators etc. The emphasis in these fights is techniques and winning, not saying the UFC guys don't want to win but the whole set up is different.

    No 11 is there because it is a very nasty strike, a sharp pointed elbow straight down to the head causes concussion every bit as bad as a punch to the face. Why allow it when the point of competition is not to kill or even damage people. Use it by all means, (and we can use it very effectively when needed) in a SD scenario if you want but there is little need to allow it in a competition. We aren't barbarians.
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    A lot of things are said against MMA, most of it isn't true. Many say there aren't any rules at all.
     
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  18. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    Eh we are only a lion cloth away from being them lol.
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, unless you play rugby!
    About Us - Barbarian FC
     
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  20. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    You see, I was just explaining to some Kickboxer on youtube, that the reason kenpo doesn't work in the ring, is because the rules of the ring are set up, so you can't use kenpo, and now this? It just got truer. LOL123
     
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