Experienced Knifers

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Gaucho

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Arnisador...attack, counterattack, offense, defense, its all in the flow...simultaneous.

Cathevangelist...yeah, working outdoors on varying terrain is really fun as well as being critical training. Snow, ice, sand, in the woods, in an alley, on stairs, every type of terrain changes the fight a bit. The more you have experienced in training, the more comfortable you are should the ***** hit the fan, right?

And you are right, it is challenge, especially for new students to this type of work, to stick with it. We do use the principle of progressive resistence. That is, when a more experienced fighter is paired up with a less experienced fighter, the better fighter subtlely makes the drill hard but not impossible for his partner- i.e, he doesn't just completely destroy his lesser opponent. The diffficulty is then ratched up over time as the new student skills develop. It is still difficult work, however, and some people just can't hang with the program. The good news is that you, as an instructor, can feel confident that those who do keep coming back have the right martial spirit to become warriors.

Oh, FYI, just so some of you don't get the wrong idea, our '30 sec drill' is just what we do at the beginning of every class. It is only one tiny but useful piece of the puzzle. Once we are done with it, we move on to sparring one on one where any pair can attack another pair at anytime. I usually break out at some point and watch each pair and give tips on whatever they're doing- if need be. I will randomly attack one of a pair as well. All this keeps our fighters from overfocusing on one opponent at a time.

Once we are all warmed up well through several rounds of various types of sparring we move on to the real work of the class- scenario work, sensitivity training, movement work, whatever.

Once we are all fried from that, we finish by clustering in groups of three or four and discussing what we learned in class and asking any leftover questions. Again, as throughout the class, at any point someone in a group can attack another and the others in that group then also instantly gang up on the attackee. The fight goes on until the attackee gains dominance, escapes, or fails. If failure, then attacks are worked backwards from failure through slow sparring in order to discover the various ways and timeframes in which success could have occured.

We do the same during scenario training- i.e., if someone fails a scenario, we play it out again slow sparring, going backwards from failure first, then forwards from the beginning, until the fighter feels comfortable with their ability to deal with that particular attack sequence.

Slow sparring is a tremendous learning tool. I cannot emphasize that enough. It allows students to see what they might miss in realtime, and the lessons learned translate perfectly to realtime.

Anyhow, that's some of what we do routinely. It makes for a fun and challenging time and keeps things more 'real'. Try it for yourselves and see what you think.

Respectfully,

Mario
 

arnisador

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Sounds similar to the discussions of Systema in the RMA forum. I think you said you also do Systema, so maybe that's no surprise!
 
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Gaucho

Guest
Yes I am huge advocate of Systema. It is such sweet science. Its the kind of subtle art where the more you know about fighting the more you appreciate it. It is wonderful what training in Systema teaches you and how much better of a fighter it makes you. It has proven itself to me and to my training partners over and over again.

As far as teaching goes, by adding Systema principles to the Amok! teaching progressions, I can now get my beginning students to move like experienced fighters significantly faster- in a matter of a few months.

And what about striking or throwing ability on the fly in reatime? Or fighting/hitting/throwing on slippery surfaces or underwater where you cannot base and your center of gravity is shifting around all? Systema is freakin' unbelievable, I kid you not. It is a Thing of Beauty.

Mario
 
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BladeMaster

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As I have stated many times:to try to fight a knife wealding person (experienced or not) is a mostly fatal endevor. You have a 20% greater chance of dying from a stab wound than a gunshot...REAL cop statistics. If you think you really can stop a knife weilding person,moving very fast,powerful and only carving you up on his mind...TEST IT OUT FOR REAL!!! YOU ONLY GET ONE SHOT AT THIS TEST. Sooo...if you don't want to do that the next best thing is to go to this slick site I found called www.VirtualBlade.com. You just buy this cool kit for cheap,stick it on your practice blade and whack away at each other. See who comes away without a big fat GREEN mark on 'em. Now try it empty handed with the other guy going full boar. Good freakin luck! I will bet the farm that no one who is emptyhanded will survive. In fact find someone who has NEVER done knife fighting in his life and let him attack without rules or teaching on his mind and you won't survive either. This is a pretty sobering experience. With severe practice in this manner,over time you might have a slight edge over the dojo practitioner with his bare rubber knife,not knowing what worked and what did'nt. Take this to heart folks,but,don't take my word for it. Try it yourself...it will save your life. Leave fantasy for the movies and idiots like VanDamme who got his clocked cleaned for real by a real Chuck Zito. Stay safe.BladeMaster
 
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Skyline22

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I've been subject to two knife fights to this date. As for combat experience with a blade, I can pretty much tell you, YES, you will get cut..more often than not. I was cut both times I was engaged, the second time twice! It's not pleasant, engaging another individual with a blade in his hand..but it's not impossible to deal with.. here are some basic ground rules for you..

1. Expect to get cut. PERIOD
2. Don't focus too much on the blade. While it's dangerous, the person using it is your true threat.
3. If you have no other option but to defend, get in close..do NOT try to distance yourself, that only gives him room to manuever and attack. Smother his natural weapons if you can, and take out his platform.
4. Don't ever try to control the weapon or weapon hand.. instead, attack the limb behind it. Try to control the arm itself..doing this, you can disarm in several ways, and limit his access during attacks.
5. Don't try to "hurt" him or use pain compliance tactics...he's got a knife! Incapacitate or kill him! If he happens to survive, lucky him. If not, then it was a justifiable homicide. Use of deadly force IS authorized when...

1. There is an immediate threat of seriously bodily harm.
That includes:
Open wounds or gashes.
Broken bones.
Damage to internal organs.

If any of these factors are present during an assault on your person, then respond accordingly. I might come across as way too aggressive, but then if I didn't, I wouldn't have survived two knife assaults. No such thing as too aggressive when your life is at stake folks!!
 

hardheadjarhead

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MisterMike said:
I'm wondering how people skilled defending against experienced knife fighters handle them empty handed.

Against an EXPERIENCED knife fighter?

Yuck.

I can't imagine a thing one could do in that event. That qualifier "experienced" changes things quite a bit. What a big chunk of suck.


Some interesting comments from others, still.


Regards,


Steve
 
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