Evolution in taekwondo

[puunui]

He knew everyone involved in the process of obfuscation and discovery, including the person who wrote the linked article, Master John Hancock. When it comes to this matter, if you really want to get into the gory details, contact him.

I know John Hancock. I was the one who he learned that GM HWANG Kee was a member of the Chung Do Kwan and whose rank was 6th guep, White Belt. This was ten or fifteen years ago. He kind of went to town after that and tried unsuccessfully to get the Soo Bahk Do Hwe to admit the "truth". At the time it was radical information, but today, everyone sort of accepts it, the Moo Duk Kwan/Chung Do Kwan connection. You can tell there is a connection simply by looking at the logos of the respective Kwan. The Moo Duk Kwan symbol is derivative of the Chung Do Kwan symbol.

 

[puunui]

So how would address a Jido Sabum? Example only As Hi Jido Sabumnim Puunui

As Tony Jidosabum or Tony Jidosabumnim or Jidosabumnim, depending on whether you are senior or junior. I suppose it would also be ok to simply say Sabumnim. I still call some of my teachers that.

 

[puunui]

Oh, and PS:

Okay, I will "feed the trolls" so to speak.

Someone told me they thought your comment above was kind of humorous, given your earlier statement below:

So, over 200 reads but not much banter from the peanut gallery, hmm. Let me try to fan the fire a bit; remember that when I write the next few thoughts.

 

[MSUTKD]

I never said that I don't troll! Why do you think I'm here? Lol Teach them to fish.

P.S. Check that other thread later, I will be "troll O rama", that's my word by the way.

 

[mastercole]

This is what I believe the hanja, if there is any, lol, and meaning to be. I could really be wrong here and perhaps Master Cole can ask his house guest if I am actually learning to get this right.

지도사범 (指導師範)
Jido sabum – Leader or Guiding Teacher of Teachers
지 (指) - Pointing
도 (導) - Guide
사 (師) - Teacher
범 (範) - Pattern


대사범 (大師範)
Dae sabum – Greater Teacher of Teachers
대 (大) - Greater
사 (師) - Teacher
범 (範) - Pattern

I asked him. In the best English he could muster, he commented as follows:

- These seem like new combined terms as he never heard them before
- Sabum as used in everyday Korean refers to a martial arts teacher
- When you say "sabum" a Taekwondo teacher automatically comes to mind
- Korean's do not think of Sabum as a "teacher of teachers" even if you can find it in Hanja
- ****you have to also know the intended meaning that Hanja was selected for.
This means you have to find out from the people who selected it as Hanja has radically
different meanings
- Jido Sabum in this situation seems to him to mean "Lead Instructor" or "Chief Instructor",
but again, he said you would have to ask the people who selected the term to find it's
intended meaning

 

[mastercole]

2. I do not know what some of the old masters think but I will ask them, in person, next month. I am sure you will get a mix.

Which old masters in Korea will you be asking?

 

[mastercole]

The history that the Taekwondo seniors came up with is a good example, it was fabricated. Their reasons however might be understood if you lived through occupation. Doing the wrong thing, for whatever reason is bad.

Recently you stated to me that the Kukkiwon made a spelling error, and just does not want to admit it, that is why they changed the Hangul from poomsae, to poomsae. Do you still believe this?

Now you have stated that Taekwondo seniors (your seniors or my seniors?) fabricated Taekwondo history. What are the names of the senors that fabricated Taekwondo history?
What specific history was fabricated?

Also, has anyone told you yet if the teams at Poomsae World Championships will be wearing the new uniforms?

 

[mastercole]

Ron and Puunui, I'd like to take this discussion onto Taekwondo-net. We have thousands of dedicated Taekwondoin that would like to see this discussion.

 

[MSUTKD]

Also, has anyone told you yet if the teams at Poomsae World Championships will be wearing the new uniforms?

Yes we will wear them, at least that is what we were told. They asked for sizes.


Sir, I hope to get to your other questions soon. I am glad you are here because I will need you on my next post. Stand by, I have to pull stuff from that old paper I wrote.

 

[MSUTKD]

- ****you have to also know the intended meaning that Hanja was selected for.
This means you have to find out from the people who selected it as Hanja has radically
different meanings

Thanks, I guess I am learning that cool.

Actually hanja very rarely has a disrupted meaning. But agreed that my translations are a bit literal, I do this on purpose for the reader who has no idea about how the characters work.

 

[terryl965]

OK I am one of those that really do not understand Hanja translation, but I thought it always had a general meaning. I see where you Master Southwick said you are using a literal one on purpose to get to some people. While I guess I understand this could you also give the general meaning as well so some of us could possible and actually learn something with these threads?

I am really interested in learning also you said find a Korean to help me in my area, should I be looking for a older one or will a college student be the same?

 

[mastercole]

OK I am one of those that really do not understand Hanja translation, but I thought it always had a general meaning. I see where you Master Southwick said you are using a literal one on purpose to get to some people. While I guess I understand this could you also give the general meaning as well so some of us could possible and actually learn something with these threads?

I am really interested in learning also you said find a Korean to help me in my area, should I be looking for a older one or will a college student be the same?

On today's internet you can easily translation Traditional Chinese characters. Save this site:
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php

There many other sites like it, but keep in mind we are talking about KOREAN use of these terms, not exactly CHINESE, thought they are often the same. So it is good to supplement your CHINESE Word & Character dictionary with an "Everyday Hanja" reference as well.

Now you to can be a Hanja Master!

 

[mastercole]

Thanks, I guess I am learning that cool.

Actually hanja very rarely has a disrupted meaning. But agreed that my translations are a bit literal, I do this on purpose for the reader who has no idea about how the characters work.

In the case of the word "poomse" we have radically different meanings. Imagine a guy with an odd agenda trying to translate the old terms "poom" and "se" and selecting these meanings from the official CHINESE translations from the CHINESE / English dictionary:

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddict&wdrst=1&wdqtm=0&wdqcham=1&wdqt=勢

品 pǐn grade / to taste / to sample / to criticize / to judge / to size up

勢 shì outward appearance / male genitals

Brings a whole new meaning to "Poomse" competition!

 

[MSUTKD]

Using the internet to translate is sure to give funny results, lol. There are actually rules that keep the misunderstanding from happening. That sir, is a whole other discussion and that would put us all to sleep. You will NOT be a hanja master from using the internet but it can be a good tool.

 

[mastercole]

Using the internet to translate is sure to give funny results, lol. There are actually rules that keep the misunderstanding from happening. That sir, is a whole other discussion and that would put us all to sleep. You will NOT be a hanja master from using the internet but it can be a good tool.

What resource (s) do you use to translate Hanja?

Basically, what are these rules that keep misunderstanding from happening?

 

[mastercole]

Using the internet to translate is sure to give funny results, lol. There are actually rules that keep the misunderstanding from happening. That sir, is a whole other discussion and that would put us all to sleep. You will NOT be a hanja master from using the internet but it can be a good tool.

The same translations, definitions, character breakdown are found in books as well, however, that site I provided, usually provides more than most books can provide.

 

[MSUTKD]

I will PM you that info as it might mess up the thread, I hate that, lol.

 

[Archtkd]

Ron and Puunui, I'd like to take this discussion onto Taekwondo-net. We have thousands of dedicated Taekwondoin that would like to see this discussion.

Keep the discussion here. There are thousands of dedicated Taekwondoin following it here too.

 

[Makalakumu]

Keep the discussion here. There are thousands of dedicated Taekwondoin following it here too.

And don't forget us non-taekwondoin! We watch the Olympics and may even be fans. Maybe we want to understand why you guys doffed the angry white pajamas.

As far as ranking, belt colors, and titles go, that's interesting to us as well, in an academic way.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So get ready for some real change! Coming to a Dojang near you…..A new taekwondo rank structure, now with meaning and new colors, plus new uniforms! EXTRA - The black belt is now blue (midnight blue, like TSD)

Actually we will introduce these new uniforms next month at the World Poomsae Championships in Vladivostok Russia! Cannot wait to wear mine.

http://www.jcalicu.com/JCALICUS_POOMSAE_files/%202011poomsae.pdf

Have fun!

I could not get the link to work. Not sure if its just me. Would you be able to post a picture of the new dobok? And what are the belt colors?

Thank you,

Daniel