Every fight is potentially a life-or-death event

[jobo]

Because every foolish and unnecessary death diminishes us all, not to mention costs our society dearly in the form of services and money for hospitals, courts, prisons, and so on. Because road rage. Because morons start wars when they can't walk away and innocent people die. Because angry drunks firing blindly into bars because they were challenged and lost a fight, so they went home and got a gun and started blasting away. Because angry punks driving cars into crowds because they were made fun of. Because our society can't suffer these fools anymore.

That's why I'm so judgmental. It's your choice, but the consequences are paid by all of us. And I've had it up to here with that kind of nonsense.

that's just outraged nonsense, that has nothing to do with someone standing up to a bully or an idiot, if you want to back down to any idiot that threatens you that fine, but nit all of us want to live that life

 

[Bill Mattocks]

that's just outraged nonsense, that has nothing to do with someone standing up to a bully or an idiot, if you want to back down to any idiot that threatens you that fine, but nit all of us want to live that life

Self-involved twaddle. People who choose to engage in fisticuffs when it is not absolutely required think their little sphere only involves themselves and is no one else's business. I don't care what kind of life you want to live; if you put my life in danger, or frankly if you cost me money having your wounds stitched up at the local ER when you get tanked up and stupid with no health insurance, it's my business and I'm going to comment on it whether you like it or not. You lose the option to object when you get on my dime, bub. When your choices affect me, you best believe I get a say.

And frankly, it's the bullies mantra to refer to 'not fighting' as 'backing down'. Sure, cast the intelligent choice, the wise choice, as a coward slinking away instead of a human being intelligently applying the basic principles of self-defense. I train to fight. I have fought. I fight well, in general terms. I trust my abilities in a fight and I sure as hell am not afraid to go toe-to-toe. I choose to defend myself whenever possible by NOT fighting. Call that 'backing down' if you wish. It doesn't keep me up at night.

I once again broke my rule and unignored your asinine comments. Once again I pay the price for that. OK, for my blood pressure and peace of mind, back you go. I don't even like to know people like you exist. Sometimes I read your comments and agree with them. We're from the same generation, sounds like we've seen some of the same things. But you ain't my kind, and that's the name of that tune.

 

[jobo]

Self-involved twaddle. People who choose to engage in fisticuffs when it is not absolutely required think their little sphere only involves themselves and is no one else's business. I don't care what kind of life you want to live; if you put my life in danger, or frankly if you cost me money having your wounds stitched up at the local ER when you get tanked up and stupid with no health insurance, it's my business and I'm going to comment on it whether you like it or not. You lose the option to object when you get on my dime, bub. When your choices affect me, you best believe I get a say.

And frankly, it's the bullies mantra to refer to 'not fighting' as 'backing down'. Sure, cast the intelligent choice, the wise choice, as a coward slinking away instead of a human being intelligently applying the basic principles of self-defense. I train to fight. I have fought. I fight well, in general terms. I trust my abilities in a fight and I sure as hell am not afraid to go toe-to-toe. I choose to defend myself whenever possible by NOT fighting. Call that 'backing down' if you wish. It doesn't keep me up at night.

I once again broke my rule and unignored your asinine comments. Once again I pay the price for that. OK, for my blood pressure and peace of mind, back you go. I don't even like to know people like you exist. Sometimes I read your comments and agree with them. We're from the same generation, sounds like we've seen some of the same things. But you ain't my kind, and that's the name of that tune.

in the words of Kenny Rodgers," sometimes you have to fight to be a man"

Ps I don't drink, and I don't live in the usa

 

[oftheherd1]

in the words of Kenny Rodgers," sometimes you have to fight to be a man"

Ps I don't drink, and I don't live in the usa

Sorry, it's "sometimes you have to fight when you are a man."

And although Kenny Rogers sang the song, he did not write it, but I understand a reference to Kenny Rogers as most people may not realize that most singers or their recorders buy songs, not write them themselves. There's probably more money in writing than singing, if you are good enough.

If you read the article written below, you will find that "Tommy" may have been more in agreement with Bill Mattocks than you. Certainly "Tommy's" father was, and "Tommy" tried to follow his father's plea.

From: Coward of the County - Wikipedia

Coward of the County
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Coward of the County" is a country song written by Roger Bowling and Billy Ed Wheeler, and recorded by American country music singer Kenny Rogers. It was released in November 1979 as the second single from the multi-platinum album Kenny. A million-selling gold-certified 45, it is one of Rogers' biggest hits.

The song is about a man's nephew who is a reputed coward, but finally takes a stand for his lover. The song reached number one on the Billboard Hot Country Singles chart. It also hit #1 on the Cash Box singles chart and #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. In addition, it hit #1 on the UK Singles chart.[1] It was the most recent traditional country music song to hit number one in the UK, in February 1980. In Ireland, the song was #1 for six consecutive weeks.



Contents
[1 The song's story

• 2 Controversy regarding "The Gatlin Boys" lyric

• 3 Chart performance

• 4 Cover versions

• 5 Film adaptation

• 6 References

• 7 External links

The song's story[edit]
The song tells the story of a young man named Tommy, who earns a notorious reputation as the "coward of the county" (and is nicknamed "Yellow", a slang term for a cowardly person) since he never stood up for himself one single time to prove the county wrong.

Tommy's non-confrontational attitude was influenced, at age 10, by his final visit with his imprisoned father, shortly before he dies there (accompanied by the singer, portraying Tommy's uncle). In his final words to Tommy, his father tells him that to "turn the other cheek" isn't altogether a sign of weakness, and implores him to promise "not to do the things I've done; walk away from trouble if you can" (implying that not "turning the other cheek" was what may have landed Tommy's father in prison).

Despite his cowardly reputation, Tommy falls in love with Becky, a local girl who loves Tommy for who he is without having to prove to her that he was a man. One day, while Tommy was working, the three Gatlin brothers came to Becky's house, attacked and "took turns at Becky." Tommy returns home and finds Becky crying and her dress torn. Reaching above the fireplace and taking down his daddy's picture, he faces the dilemma of choosing between upholding his father's plea of "walking away from trouble", or achieving justice for Becky.

Tommy chooses to visit the bar where the Gatlin boys are. Amid laughter upon Tommy's entrance, and after "one of them got up and met him halfway 'cross the floor," Tommy turns around, and the Gatlins assume he once again is going to walk away like a coward ("they said, hey look old yellow's leaving"). However he actually turned to lock the door behind him ("you coulda heard a pin drop when Tommy stopped and locked the door") and trap the Gatlin boys inside with him. Fueled by "twenty years of crawlin'" that "was bottled up inside him," Tommy engages in a relentless barroom brawl that leaves all three Gatlin boys unconscious on the barroom floor.

Tommy then reflects on his dead father's plea, addressing him respectfully that while he did his best to avoid trouble, he hopes he understands that "sometimes you gotta fight when you're a man."

 

[jobo]

Sorry, it's "sometimes you have to fight when you are a man."

And although Kenny Rogers sang the song, he did not write it, but I understand a reference to Kenny Rogers as most people may not realize that most singers or their recorders buy songs, not write them themselves. There's probably more money in writing than singing, if you are good enough.

If you read the article written below, you will find that "Tommy" may have been more in agreement with Bill Mattocks than you. Certainly "Tommy's" father was, and "Tommy" tried to follow his father's plea.

From: Coward of the County - Wikipedia

Coward of the County
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Coward of the County" is a country song written by Roger Bowling and Billy Ed Wheeler, and recorded by American country music singer Kenny Rogers. It was released in November 1979 as the second single from the multi-platinum album Kenny. A million-selling gold-certified 45, it is one of Rogers' biggest hits.

The song is about a man's nephew who is a reputed coward, but finally takes a stand for his lover. The song reached number one on the Billboard Hot Country Singles chart. It also hit #1 on the Cash Box singles chart and #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. In addition, it hit #1 on the UK Singles chart.[1] It was the most recent traditional country music song to hit number one in the UK, in February 1980. In Ireland, the song was #1 for six consecutive weeks.



Contents
[1 The song's story

• 2 Controversy regarding "The Gatlin Boys" lyric

• 3 Chart performance

• 4 Cover versions

• 5 Film adaptation

• 6 References

• 7 External links

The song's story[edit]
The song tells the story of a young man named Tommy, who earns a notorious reputation as the "coward of the county" (and is nicknamed "Yellow", a slang term for a cowardly person) since he never stood up for himself one single time to prove the county wrong.

Tommy's non-confrontational attitude was influenced, at age 10, by his final visit with his imprisoned father, shortly before he dies there (accompanied by the singer, portraying Tommy's uncle). In his final words to Tommy, his father tells him that to "turn the other cheek" isn't altogether a sign of weakness, and implores him to promise "not to do the things I've done; walk away from trouble if you can" (implying that not "turning the other cheek" was what may have landed Tommy's father in prison).

Despite his cowardly reputation, Tommy falls in love with Becky, a local girl who loves Tommy for who he is without having to prove to her that he was a man. One day, while Tommy was working, the three Gatlin brothers came to Becky's house, attacked and "took turns at Becky." Tommy returns home and finds Becky crying and her dress torn. Reaching above the fireplace and taking down his daddy's picture, he faces the dilemma of choosing between upholding his father's plea of "walking away from trouble", or achieving justice for Becky.

Tommy chooses to visit the bar where the Gatlin boys are. Amid laughter upon Tommy's entrance, and after "one of them got up and met him halfway 'cross the floor," Tommy turns around, and the Gatlins assume he once again is going to walk away like a coward ("they said, hey look old yellow's leaving"). However he actually turned to lock the door behind him ("you coulda heard a pin drop when Tommy stopped and locked the door") and trap the Gatlin boys inside with him. Fueled by "twenty years of crawlin'" that "was bottled up inside him," Tommy engages in a relentless barroom brawl that leaves all three Gatlin boys unconscious on the barroom floor.

Tommy then reflects on his dead father's plea, addressing him respectfully that while he did his best to avoid trouble, he hopes he understands that "sometimes you gotta fight when you're a man."

he " crawled( like a mangey dog) for twenty years, before finally coming to the,conclusion that manhood involved fighting, sometimes. I'm not sure how that supports bills suggestion that every one should spend a life time crawling (lower than a snakes belly) to every passing bully,
its one of the law of the universe that sooner or later the bully will pick on the wron g person, you can't dennie Karma its end goal

 

[Martial D]

Sorry, it's "sometimes you have to fight when you are a man."

And although Kenny Rogers sang the song, he did not write it, but I understand a reference to Kenny Rogers as most people may not realize that most singers or their recorders buy songs, not write them themselves. There's probably more money in writing than singing, if you are good enough.

If you read the article written below, you will find that "Tommy" may have been more in agreement with Bill Mattocks than you. Certainly "Tommy's" father was, and "Tommy" tried to follow his father's plea.

From: Coward of the County - Wikipedia

Coward of the County
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Coward of the County" is a country song written by Roger Bowling and Billy Ed Wheeler, and recorded by American country music singer Kenny Rogers. It was released in November 1979 as the second single from the multi-platinum album Kenny. A million-selling gold-certified 45, it is one of Rogers' biggest hits.

The song is about a man's nephew who is a reputed coward, but finally takes a stand for his lover. The song reached number one on the Billboard Hot Country Singles chart. It also hit #1 on the Cash Box singles chart and #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. In addition, it hit #1 on the UK Singles chart.[1] It was the most recent traditional country music song to hit number one in the UK, in February 1980. In Ireland, the song was #1 for six consecutive weeks.



Contents
[1 The song's story

• 2 Controversy regarding "The Gatlin Boys" lyric

• 3 Chart performance

• 4 Cover versions

• 5 Film adaptation

• 6 References

• 7 External links

The song's story[edit]
The song tells the story of a young man named Tommy, who earns a notorious reputation as the "coward of the county" (and is nicknamed "Yellow", a slang term for a cowardly person) since he never stood up for himself one single time to prove the county wrong.

Tommy's non-confrontational attitude was influenced, at age 10, by his final visit with his imprisoned father, shortly before he dies there (accompanied by the singer, portraying Tommy's uncle). In his final words to Tommy, his father tells him that to "turn the other cheek" isn't altogether a sign of weakness, and implores him to promise "not to do the things I've done; walk away from trouble if you can" (implying that not "turning the other cheek" was what may have landed Tommy's father in prison).

Despite his cowardly reputation, Tommy falls in love with Becky, a local girl who loves Tommy for who he is without having to prove to her that he was a man. One day, while Tommy was working, the three Gatlin brothers came to Becky's house, attacked and "took turns at Becky." Tommy returns home and finds Becky crying and her dress torn. Reaching above the fireplace and taking down his daddy's picture, he faces the dilemma of choosing between upholding his father's plea of "walking away from trouble", or achieving justice for Becky.

Tommy chooses to visit the bar where the Gatlin boys are. Amid laughter upon Tommy's entrance, and after "one of them got up and met him halfway 'cross the floor," Tommy turns around, and the Gatlins assume he once again is going to walk away like a coward ("they said, hey look old yellow's leaving"). However he actually turned to lock the door behind him ("you coulda heard a pin drop when Tommy stopped and locked the door") and trap the Gatlin boys inside with him. Fueled by "twenty years of crawlin'" that "was bottled up inside him," Tommy engages in a relentless barroom brawl that leaves all three Gatlin boys unconscious on the barroom floor.

Tommy then reflects on his dead father's plea, addressing him respectfully that while he did his best to avoid trouble, he hopes he understands that "sometimes you gotta fight when you're a man."

Ya, we all have access to Wikipedia. Honestly, if you need to Wikipedia a reference like that, it wasn't for you.

Youngsters....

 

[oftheherd1]

he " crawled( like a mangey dog) for twenty years, before finally coming to the,conclusion that manhood involved fighting, sometimes. I'm not sure how that supports bills suggestion that every one should spend a life time crawling (lower than a snakes belly)

It is amazing to me. Sometimes you say really meaningful and thoughtful things. But so many times you come up with posts that I have quoted here. Bill never said that BTW.

I have mentioned before that I have never put anyone on ignore. I don't intend to yet. I don't think I need to do that as I can simply ignore without the aid of software. So if I don't seem to be paying attention to you, you will know what happened. If you care. Somehow, we just don't seem to be on the same wave length.

 

[jobo]

It is amazing to me. Sometimes you say really meaningful and thoughtful things. But so many times you come up with posts that I have quoted here. Bill never said that BTW.

I have mentioned before that I have never put anyone on ignore. I don't intend to yet. I don't think I need to do that as I can simply ignore without the aid of software. So if I don't seem to be paying attention to you, you will know what happened. If you care. Somehow, we just don't seem to be on the same wave length.

I'm fascinated by the ignore function and the fact that people just can't ignore you, they have to tell you that they are putting you on ignore, then take you off ignore so that they can tell you that they are putting you on again, they seem to think that you care.

in your case, you have just posted ,to telling me that you might ignore me in the,future rather than just ignore me ?????,

there is a major sense of humour issue with some on this forum , there's not much I can do about that,

 

[JowGaWolf]

Consider also that even if a person is hit with a sloppy or otherwise terrible technique, if the person hit slips and falls, hits his head, and dies, it's still a homicide. Consider that people have died of heart attacks after being assaulted, people have been mildly injured, developed complications, and died of those. All possibilities are on the attacker as far as the law is concerned, generally speaking.

In the case I cited, it appears the victim thought he was OK, refused medical treatment, went home. The person who hit him was originally cited for a low-grade misdemeanor assault and released. The charge was upgraded after the victim passed.

Anything can happen. It doesn't have to be a good clean hit. It could be a swing and a miss, followed by slipping on ice or loose gravel, and whacking one's head on the ground. It's happened - happened near here a few years ago. Just two drunks in a bar parking lot. One guy swung wild at the other, the other jumped back, slipped on a parking divider, and whammo. Game over.

As for the environment the victim would need to be aware of it. That way he can use the environment to his advantage or he can better navigate the dangers a risks that the environment presents. The good thing about environmental factors is that the risks are there for the attacker as well. Slipping and tripping can be addressed by doing some simple foot work and stance training exercises. There will always be risks but it doesn't mean that one can't reduce them. we don't control the environment, we navigate through it. The better we can do this the less of a risk it is. The risk will always be there.

 

[oftheherd1]

Ya, we all have access to Wikipedia. Honestly, if you need to Wikipedia a reference like that, it wasn't for you.

Youngsters....

LOL. Sometimes I wish.

...

I have mentioned before that I have never put anyone on ignore. I don't intend to yet. I don't think I need to do that as I can simply ignore without the aid of software. So if I don't seem to be paying attention to you, you will know what happened. If you care. Somehow, we just don't seem to be on the same wave length.

I edited out what I thought didn't apply.

 

[jobo]

LOL. Sometimes I wish.



I edited out what I thought didn't apply.

so so far your really doing a bad job of ignoring me,

 

[Martial D]

LOL. Sometimes I wish.



I edited out what I thought didn't apply.

You post that second bit as if I care. You are 'of the herd' in more than just name. I am not.

The sort of guy that would post an entire Wikipedia page in response to a self evident song reference just to pedantically correct a grammatical error isn't the sort I would miss anyway.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Many of the comments expressed here are quite wise and mature. Others are immature, blustering, and ignorant, even coming from older people, which goes quite a ways towards explaining why there is so much idiotic violence in the world. People who can't or won't back down, people who feel that being challenged or taunted or cussed at is a good reason to fight, even if they have the option to walk away. Unfortunate in the extreme. College frat boy idiocy run wild.

The thing about what you say can apply to those who are attacking the victim in the first place. For me I don't mind losing a confrontation as long as I can choose how to lose. Attackers who fight for the same reasons you listed. Normally I would have only discussed the risk of killing someone with a punch, but the other side of the coin is the victim who died. Was there any thing he could have done to recognize the dangers. while reading the OP, it made me think of the kung fu legends about someone fighting and dying the next day. I wonder if things like this is what those legends were based on.

 

[JR 137]

The thing about what you say can apply to those who are attacking the victim in the first place. For me I don't mind losing a confrontation as long as I can choose how to lose. Attackers who fight for the same reasons you listed. Normally I would have only discussed the risk of killing someone with a punch, but the other side of the coin is the victim who died. Was there any thing he could have done to recognize the dangers. while reading the OP, it made me think of the kung fu legends about someone fighting and dying the next day. I wonder if things like this is what those legends were based on.

The "delayed death touch." Along with bruising someone's heart and it taking about 6 months for them to have a heart attack, rupturing someone's spleen and they slowly fatally bleed internally. They didn't have the medical care and technology we currently have.

Most of it had to be superstitious nonsense though. And it's highly doubtful anyone could intentionally kill someone this way (delayed death touch) if they tried. You'd need an exact force on an exact angle for it to intentionally work.

 

[oftheherd1]

The "delayed death touch." Along with bruising someone's heart and it taking about 6 months for them to have a heart attack, rupturing someone's spleen and they slowly fatally bleed internally. They didn't have the medical care and technology we currently have.

Most of it had to be superstitious nonsense though. And it's highly doubtful anyone could intentionally kill someone this way (delayed death touch) if they tried. You'd need an exact force on an exact angle for it to intentionally work.

I have always thought that the 'dem mak' was more superstition myself. But in Korea I know a Korean soldier was killed by a booted kick to the xiphoid process that damaged the heart. He however, died instantly.

In Vietnam a villager died from a malarial spleen. It seems they often fill with blood to the point that a small trauma from the front, or even an event like jumping off a bench, can cause the spleen to rupture and the person will bleed to death, but not necessarily quickly, as in minutes. Probably not days, and certainly not months though either.

Who knows if MA caused either of the above injuries and thought they had come up with a perfect strike procedure that would kill slowly. It could be that the person who took the blow, and was told what it was thought to be, aided in his own death by just sort of giving up?

 

[Buka]

Some folks dismiss the "delayed death touch" out of Martial habit. You do so at your own peril, my friends. Known as moram mortem in some early early Latin circles, it is now commonly referred to as marriage.

 

[drop bear]

Many of the comments expressed here are quite wise and mature. Others are immature, blustering, and ignorant, even coming from older people, which goes quite a ways towards explaining why there is so much idiotic violence in the world. People who can't or won't back down, people who feel that being challenged or taunted or cussed at is a good reason to fight, even if they have the option to walk away. Unfortunate in the extreme. College frat boy idiocy run wild.

Or it is a call for cowardice an excuse to not act when needed to.

We can all make emotional posts.

Personally I think it is a risk vs reward game. And I dont think the risk is being addressed as realistically as it could be. This is because of the emotional nature of this discussion.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Every thing is potentially life or death. Isn't it? I don't quite understand the distinction here.

It's about reasonable risk. I could die driving my car, but not getting in a car has a HUGE downside from where I live (no work, groceries, etc.). What's the downside to not getting in the fight? If the downside is big, take the risk. If the downside is someone will think you're a wuss, who cares?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I still don't think this focus on risk is very good at mentally preparing someone for engaging in the exact same risky behavior you are training them for.

So while it sells memberships and sounds great. I do not think violence as a last resort because you could die or kill someone is the right way to approach this discussion.

I also believe good mental preparation is vital for any self defence training and does not necessarily get the depth of training it deserves within the self defence industry.

When we weigh the risks we need to be mindful of the outcomes. But also be able to engage in that risky action with enough confidence to achieve the task. This comes down to my ongoing idea that fighting really needs to be a clinical decision. And not based on mood.

Bear in mind fighting is not a last resort. Choosing to stand there and get your face smashed in is.

I see your point, but I don't agree with the premise. I don't think making this argument (that fighting is inherently high-risk, and so should be avoided unless the risk accompanying avoidance is high) reduces confidence in fighting. I think it helps avoid the over-confidence I see in some martial artists (myself, included, at one point back in my 20's) who come to believe they can handle situations without risk.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

in the words of Kenny Rodgers," sometimes you have to fight to be a man"

Ps I don't drink, and I don't live in the usa

That's a misquote of The Gambler. It actually says, "you don't have to fight to be a man" and, "sometimes you have to fight when you're a man." Fighting doesn't make you a man.