Erle Montaigue and Tai Chi

Ninebird8

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I have just watched 3 of Mr. Montaigue's tai chi form videos. A couple of observations from my 31 years of kung fu/Yang tai chi practice (so I am intellectually honest, my Yang teachers are Sifu Jeff Bolt and Dr. Yang Jwing Ming, my kung fu teachers are Leung Shum, Ricky Anderson, and Jeff Bolt). Their teachers are Ng Wei (Shum), Wang Fui Ying (Anderson), and Dr. Yang Jwing Ming (Bolt). There, now I have my history out of the way...LOL! From my observation ( I do not care about Mr. Montaigue's comments about Yang Lu chuan, I am only commenting on the videos and this is comment on the movements, as I do not know him at all so will not and cannot comment on him personally), his root is very high, by his kicks he is not very flexible, even in a snake creeps down or white crane spreads wings, and when I watched his Canon fist video, his fa jing was emanating from his waist only (characteristic of southern kung fu styles like southern white crane or southern preying mantis) and not generating from feet to hip/waist to shoulder to elbow expressed out through the hands as the result of the movement not the cause. I like some of the explosion at the end of his canon fist, but do not see the rooting power that I see in most Yang stylists, including my teachers. However, it is a video representation, so I will concede that I do not see the whole movement as most video is only 2 dimensional.

One thing I have learned in 31 years is no one knows everything! Even about their own style. As I said, I am only commenting on movements, and comparing them to other tai chi masters I have seen like William C.C. Chen, Steve Watson, Siu Fong Evans, Johnny Lee, Leung Shum, Master Kit, Willy Lin, etc. This is only my humble opinion. As I come to this thread late, who again are his Yang teachers?

I have no desire, nor do I care about, his other comments....again, just commenting on his movements, and that is where I wish this thread would return to. I would find it much more useful, both as a student and teacher of the arts, to have the very experienced people on here comment on the overall branches of Yang, Chen, and Wu styles than specific problems with individuals. Talk about the movements, the applications, the passing on to maintain the skills, etc. That is what is valuable to me!!
 

furtom

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I don't know why I'm jumping in here as I have no particular experience with Montaigue or his students. I just wanted to make the point that when I see his Website, I see a guy dedicated to the propagation of his art. He's giving away his knowledge.

This is not the behavior of an egocentric personality.

That does not mean his claims are correct or verifiable. But I would be inclined to give the man the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. At the very least, I think he believes what he says, which is significant.

I think the only way to really judge any teacher is to meet him in person and grab onto him, feel the smoothness and the power of his technique, the ease of application, etc. Since I can't do that, at least I can appreciate the things he is doing on the Net for everyone's benefit.

If I ever can contribute in such a way to the community, I would feel myself lucky and successful.
 

pete

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nor I Tom... but seems that there are dog lovers who must have pure-breads for pomp & ceremony, shows, and pedegree/lineage... and there are dog lovers who rescue strays from shelter to become loyal family pets or hunting dogs. never the twain shall meet, and far be it from me to say who loves their animal more or less... but, seems there ought to be enough room in the world for both to enjoy life.

pete
 

Xue Sheng

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I don't know why I'm jumping in here as I have no particular experience with Montaigue or his students. I just wanted to make the point that when I see his Website, I see a guy dedicated to the propagation of his art. He's giving away his knowledge.

This is not the behavior of an egocentric personality.

That does not mean his claims are correct or verifiable. But I would be inclined to give the man the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. At the very least, I think he believes what he says, which is significant.

I think the only way to really judge any teacher is to meet him in person and grab onto him, feel the smoothness and the power of his technique, the ease of application, etc. Since I can't do that, at least I can appreciate the things he is doing on the Net for everyone's benefit.

If I ever can contribute in such a way to the community, I would feel myself lucky and successful.

Is his Taiji from Yang Luchan? Well yes everyone's "traditional" Yang Style comes from Yang Luchan. It also comes from Chen Changxing but I do not think I would advertise my Yang Taiji as such.

Is his Taiji from Yang Luchan in a lineage that does not include Yang Chengfu? That is possible. But the claim of it being from Yang Luchan and not including Yang Banhou and/or Yang Shouhou is just not correct.

He gives a lot away for free and I am told he is a nice guy and that is just fine however if what he is giving away for free is not what it is advertised as then how is that helping taiji? I do not know where his Yang style comes from but he writes papers on the evils of Yang Chengfu and then teaches the form as it comes form Yang Chengfu. He has free videos out there he calls Tung Ying Chieh's fast form that it is not either of the fast forms form Tung Ying Chieh.

Is he lying? I do not know, but I tend towards I don't think so.

Could he believe everything he is saying? Could be, and this is more to what I believe

I know of a Yang Taiji Sifu, that is considered very good, from a good lineage, that also claims (and fully believes) he is teaching Tung Ying Chieh's fast form and he is further off than Erle. He was told by the guy that taught him that is was, he was also told by the guy that taught him that he learned it from Tung Hu Ling and there is no way, given the time that the guy claims to have learned it, that he learned it from Tung Hu Ling. He simply was not there at that time and furthermore it looks absolutely nothing like either of the fast forms from the Tung Family.

Erle is Erle that is all and I have already dedicated to much time to discussions of him.
 

furtom

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Is his Taiji from Yang Luchan? Well yes everyone's "traditional" Yang Style comes from Yang Luchan. It also comes from Chen Changxing but I do not think I would advertise my Yang Taiji as such.
...

You are surely right. You obviously have much more detailed knowledge than I do and I wouldn't argue.

I'm just saying the guy seems genuine. That doesn't mean his form is genuine, it means he's a dedicated teacher and very probably a good martial artist. If I ever meet him or a student of his and discover it's crap, I'll be the first one to admit it.

What can I tell you? I read the stuff he posts/publishes and I like it.

Oh BTW, I like all the stuff you post, too, Xue Sheng. :)
 

Xue Sheng

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I'm just saying the guy seems genuine. That doesn't mean his form is genuine, it means he's a dedicated teacher and very probably a good martial artist.

I agree with this, I do believe he is dedicated to what he teaches. I am not sure if he is or is not a good martial artist but I would not be surprised if he were.

And some of the stuff he writes is not bad, some, IMO, is questionable. I do have a big issue with the whole Yang Chengfu ruined Yang style stuff whilst he still teaches taiji from Yang Chengfu, but that is just me.
 
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bigfootsquatch

bigfootsquatch

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I've delt with Erle before. I'm going to try to clear this up for everyone so that we can get to talking about tai chi. :)

Erle has practical self defense methods that most of us could use. Erle offers quite a bit of free information. Some of it is useful; some of it is not. A lot of the information is over 10 years old. As you read his documents, you may find that his views change. If you ask him a question, he will give you a straightforward answer. He is somewhat boastful however. He thinks he is one of the only people to do real tai chi. If you question him about his lineage, then he will get very defense. Many Bagua practitioners question his lineage in that as well. I have no knowledge of that however.

Some people swear by his tai chi, others do not. I believe that his tai chi is greater than 90% of what is taught in the yang tai chi world, but then again most "tai chi" being taught is garbage that isn't good for health or self defense.
 
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