EPAK and SL-4

Doc

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. The so-called scholarly “old masters” of the movies were few and far between.


and,yet, alive and well in California it seems :)

Were the A.O.D.'s crerated by Mr.Parker or yourself as a continuation of his work?
Mr. Parker discussed this with many, but found the concept so intellectually demanding, few in the commercial arena were interested. What he did was when he initially attempted to introduce the concept, he built them around a formulaic approach designed to encourage "sparring" in the schools, and thus support his tournament(s). Personal students like Dennis Conatser know, and understand them as the "Freestyle Formulas."

As hard as it may seem to fathom, in the old days Parker's Kenpo Schools had a rep of not producing tournament fighters. You couldn't even put a team together out of one school.

Chuck Sullivan, (Steve Sanders Instructor) running the Inglewood school on LaBrea and Century with guys like John Henderson, emphasized hard nosed sparring. Tom Kelly, also at the Santa Monica School pushed the physicality of free sparring, producing young guns like Rick Carthew. There were others like Steve LaBounty, Ralph Castellanos, Brian Strain, etc and later came Bob White who set the gold standard for continued excellence and class out of his school in Costa Mesa.

The "Freestyle Formulas" were intended to infuse some of that material, but fell short with most choosing to teach a more simplistic approach, that was actually more in line with the idea and rules of open tournament competition.

In my teaching, I returned to the original goals of the concept, began reformulating them accordingly, and changed the name to something more appropriate to their application. They may be used limitedly for some sparring, but they encompass a more "street perspective" to the concept and contain elements that would not be allowed in competition.
and with all due respect sir, how are you perserving this encyclopedia of knowledge that you understand so well called SL4? I know the time to write things out and the difficulties of video are nearly insurmountable road blocks...so i guess the question really is: Is SL 4 secured and alive for futur generations?
Absolutely sir. I've been writing the SL-4 material since the seventies. Initially with Ed Parker's input and guidance. It is VERY time consuming and difficult, and clearly there is much that cannot be written down persé, but exist within the frame work of the material to be deciphered by knowledgeable students. Mr. Parker recognized the difficulty but was also committed to the expansion process of his other material. I took the notes and kept them.

Thus, the inflexibility of techniques which I designed from the ground up to contain all that is necessary to be functional, even with minor variances in attacks. Long term results, function, and an archiving of the information are the paramount goals, over quick skills that dissipate just as quickly.

Oddly enough, it doesn't take any longer to learn for a dedicated student, but requires a higher level of instruction. This why expansion has always been difficult for us. We don't care about the money or size of the group, over and above the preservation of the high standards of the art out of respect to Mr. Parker. But few are qualified to teach the material, and we do not assimilate ranks or experience. Everyone starts from, and are taught from the beginning with an evaluation of basic skills and an understanding of the proper methodologies for long term success, and the maintenance of the information. Mr. Parker is the progenitor and was a genius. We like to think the method, along with the information we teach proves he was smarter than most know.
 

Kraiguar

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Mr. Parker told us don't be like the man at the bottom of the well, who when looking up at the sky thinks that portion of the sky he see's is all there really is to heaven. ~Peace and Blessings~

"Remembering is for those who forget".
 

Doc

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Mr. Parker told us don't be like the man at the bottom of the well, who when looking up at the sky thinks that portion of the sky he see's is all there really is to heaven. ~Peace and Blessings~

"Remembering is for those who forget".

What's up Mr. Smith?
 

Kraiguar

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Trying never to forget Doc, the days at the Rio Theater when you use to spin the projector showing Shaft over and over as we worked on techniques taught by you in real time in a realistic situation against Stanley "Tookie" Williams and the Crips street gang from that era.
We were effective because we also developed the proper attitude needed to survive and escape those truly deadly times and circumstances.
It can not just look good, it has to work.

We should all thank God everyday for the gift of Mr. Parker and the brilliant mind that is Ron Chapel. ~Peace and Blessings~
 

Doc

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Trying never to forget Doc, the days at the Rio Theater when you use to spin the projector showing Shaft over and over as we worked on techniques taught by you in real time in a realistic situation against Stanley "Tookie" Williams and the Crips street gang from that era.
We were effective because we also developed the proper attitude needed to survive and escape those truly deadly times and circumstances.
It can not just look good, it has to work.

We should all thank God everyday for the gift of Mr. Parker and the brilliant mind that is Ron Chapel. ~Peace and Blessings~

Man you are going waaay back. I had forgot about that. Which Purple Belt was that, that kicked Tookie in the balls? Those were some rough days, and if you couldn't fight, you couldn't hang. I remember our best fighters were guys like you, Lenny, Harvey, Vontré, Nitty, Cruise, all high school students. We had all of you "kids" fighting adult war veterans and winning. Memories sir. Thanks for jogging an old man's memory. Email me sometime buddy.
 

kenpo_cory

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No. The last of the original forms end at Short Three. Everything after that was specifically created for competition presentation in tournaments, including all of the weapons forms. I do not touch any of those because they cannot be reconciled with good body mechanics in their entirety.

Thank you for confirming what my instructor always told me. He doesn't teach any of the original forms past Long 1. When i mentioned this to other high ranking kenpo instructors i was told he was robbing me of knowledge.
 

Doc

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Thank you for confirming what my instructor always told me. He doesn't teach any of the original forms past Long 1. When i mentioned this to other high ranking kenpo instructors i was told he was robbing me of knowledge.
There is a measure of knowledge in all of the Commercial Kenpo system, some good, some bad. There is specific knowledge in Form Four that I find valuable as an example, but the form as a whole doesn't conform to our interpretation philosophy or physical requirements. Therefore for us, the information is covered elsewhere. To not teach those forms is an instructor prerogative. The information may be conveyed in many ways, and Ed Parker never mandated any of it, and allowed instructors to use Big Red as a guide, not a "bible." Any "high ranking" instructor should know that.
 

Kraiguar

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Doc, some say that it was Gary "Rabbit" Goodman who executed that groin kick. But Stanlely "Tookie" Williams himself said that it was Two Time IKC Champion in the Junior Division 1969-1970 Vountia Moss Jr.
~Peace and Blessings~
www.kraiguarsmith.com
 

Doc

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Doc, some say that it was Gary "Rabbit" Goodman who executed that groin kick. But Stanlely "Tookie" Williams himself said that it was Two Time IKC Champion in the Junior Division 1969-1970 Vountia Moss Jr.
~Peace and Blessings~
www.kraiguarsmith.com

No, it wasn't Gary or Tré. Both Goodman and Moss were green belts at the time. This guy was a pretty quiet purple belt. I can see his face, but can't pull up a name. It was significant because the kid didn't really want to fight, but when the older guys like Cliff Stewart insured it was to be a fair fight, he went ahead and took care of business. As I recall you and Moss came out of Shorin Ryu at PASLA, and Gary came out of Kobayashi with Bill Short.
 

DavidCC

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Would one of you guys be willing to tell this story from the beginning? How did you arrange to have purple belts kicking Crips in the nads? :btg:

Doc this is why we need to write your biography... I know you have 1000 stories at least as fascinating as this.
 

Kraiguar

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Doc, it is true that Gary Goodman came from Willy Short and Vountria and I were students of Eugene Davis and the PASLA Workshop at the Balboa Theater in South Central Los Angeles. Vountria and I became students of Steve (Sanders) Muhammad in 1967 along with "Little" Steve Nelson we were his first three original students.
In 1968 Vountria and I were green belt and purple respectively and in 1970 we were promoted to brown belt along with Al Harvey original student of Frank "Nitty" Wilson who was an original student of Count Dante from Chicago.
After leaving Willy Short and joining our school that same year Ricky Heath Jr., Vountria, Al "Hot Dog" Harvey, myself and others would fight against John Natividad, Darnell Garcia, Bob White, Howard Jackson and many noted fighters of that time in team and divisional tournament competition and yes we were 15, 16, 17 years of age and having lots of fun doing battle with these great men, true pioneers.
Vountria, Hot Dog and I wore the Kenpo patch with honor before the BKF was even a dream and were diligent in our studies as you well should know.
Now, as a founding member of the BKF I can tell you who walked in after the door was already open. We were seniors to all but the founders and teachers which included Sijo Muhammad, Guru Cliff Stewart, Grandmaster Jerry Smith, Dr. Ron Chapel, Ted Taylor and a few others.
In 1970 Frank "Nitty" became the first black Belt and in 1971 Vountria, Hot Dog, Ricky, and Kraiguar were promoted to Black Belt together.
Now you being somewhat of a genius even then as a UCLA student, in 1970 assisted with the business of running the Rio Theater and the BKF were hired as Security to keep the Crips in check when needed, which was more other than not.
Doc, remember the sign you posted on the front door that read "Owned and Operated by the BKF".
In conclusion I never said it was Vountria who kicked Tookie, I said that Tookie believed that it was Vountria and when he was almost crying in pain in the lobby area I was there along with Vountria, Steve and others escorting him and the rest out the door.
It is true, I think it is time we all write our biography.
"Over every possessor of knowledge, their is one who is more knowing".
~Peace and Blessings~
www.kraiguarsmith.com
 

Doc

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Doc, it is true that Gary Goodman came from Willy Short and Vountria and I were students of Eugene Davis and the PASLA Workshop at the Balboa Theater in South Central Los Angeles.

The old Balboa theater on South Vermont Ave, several miles from Manual Arts High School. Last I heard Gene was working for D.O.D.
Vountria and I became students of Steve (Sanders) Muhammad in 1967 along with "Little" Steve Nelson we were his first three original students.
That's right. Most don't know that.
In 1968 Vountria and I were green belt and purple respectively and in 1970 we were promoted to brown belt along with Al Harvey original student of Frank "Nitty" Wilson who was an original student of Count Dante from Chicago.
Frank Wilson was the fastest martial artist I ever saw. Fighting with him and fast guys like you made me stay fast.
After leaving Willy Short and joining our school that same year Ricky Heath Jr., Vountria, Al "Hot Dog" Harvey, myself and others ..
Ricky Heath was also up there in the speed department, along with my recruit from Ark Wong's, Lenny Ferguson.
... would fight against John Natividad, Darnell Garcia, Bob White, Howard Jackson and many noted fighters of that time in team and divisional tournament competition and yes we were 15, 16, 17 years of age and having lots of fun doing battle with these great men, true pioneers.
Some of the greatest ever.
Vountria, Hot Dog and I wore the Kenpo patch with honor before the BKF was even a dream and were diligent in our studies as you well should know.
Now, as a founding member of the BKF I can tell you who walked in after the door was already open.

In 1970 Frank "Nitty" became the first black Belt and in 1971 Vountria, Hot Dog, Ricky, and Kraiguar were promoted to Black Belt together.
You guys were the original core group of young black belts.
Now you being somewhat of a genius even then as a UCLA student, in 1970 assisted with the business of running the Rio Theater and the BKF were hired as Security to keep the Crips in check when needed, which was more other than not.
You know Cliff and I both went to UCLA, and he was my room mate. The Rio Theater in the heart of gangland on the corner of Imperial and Western, about a mile from the original BKF School opened by the money we earned at the theater. The last film I ran there was was "AKA Cassius Clay." I was the only one who was a licensed commercial motion picture projectionist.
Doc, remember the sign you posted on the front door that read "Owned and Operated by the BKF".
That's right, the money I used to open the school was earned collectively by all of us, including my salary as manager/projectionist.
In conclusion I never said it was Vountria who kicked Tookie, I said that Tookie believed that it was Vountria and when he was almost crying in pain in the lobby area I was there along with Vountria, Steve and others escorting him and the rest out the door.
Yeah, I remember he got fired up and left with his tale between his legs.
It is true, I think it is time we all write our biography.
Well if I did mine, I would need "immunity" and end up in the "Witness Protection Program" for the stuff I know.:)

[quote
"Over every possessor of knowledge, their is one who is more knowing".
[/quote]
Just memories Brother.

www.kraiguarsmith.com[/QUOTE]
 

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