None that would involve purposly contacting the knife with my hand. Thats just too risky to get cut. All of ours are basically destructions or holds of the hand, arm, or basic side of the body the knife is on.
7sm
Effective Empty Hand vs Knife Strategies
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
None that would involve purposly contacting the knife with my hand. Thats just too risky to get cut. All of ours are basically destructions or holds of the hand, arm, or basic side of the body the knife is on.
7sm
OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
Some of our attempt to use a joint lock or some destructive manuever first before we try to strip the blade. With shorter blades this is more difficult, which is why I may opt to destroy my opponents mobility and then run away to end the confrontation.
psi_radar
Black Belt
Systema has some interesting disarms that range from a simple shearing technique to contact manipulation between your body and the blade. They also train to gain sensitivity with the attributes of the knife and building familiarity with it...hence the training with live blades at the higher levels. The idea is that you'll fight a lot more effectively if you're not actively crapping your pants (though that could be considered defense #5). This training is spontaneous, not rehearsed techniques. I'd trade that kind of knife training over rote techniques any day.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #24
I'm of the mind that you should train attack angles with repeated defenses that fit the defenders body type in order to make the defense mushin.
M
MisterMike
Guest
I think the strategy will depend on the defender. If your confidence and skills tell you you shouldn't even consider engaging the attacker, you should look for a means to escape.
Then there will be those who do not see the means to escape and must engage the attacker.
I'm of the mind that you cannot win empty handed by kicking and punching alone (unless you get lucky). So lets rule out kicking it out of his hand, or the single knock-out punch.
At some point, you need to get control of the weapon. Then remove the threat of it harming you, either by removing the knife, disabling the arm at some location, or restraining the arm and removing that person's ability to fight. So getting a hold of the knife-wielding arm is probably the strategy most likely to lead you to success.
I think studying arts that deal with joint control/manipulation will therefor be of more benefit to helping this strategy, practiced of course with a blade.
Still, all that been said, it's not a pretty place to be in.
Then there will be those who do not see the means to escape and must engage the attacker.
I'm of the mind that you cannot win empty handed by kicking and punching alone (unless you get lucky). So lets rule out kicking it out of his hand, or the single knock-out punch.
At some point, you need to get control of the weapon. Then remove the threat of it harming you, either by removing the knife, disabling the arm at some location, or restraining the arm and removing that person's ability to fight. So getting a hold of the knife-wielding arm is probably the strategy most likely to lead you to success.
I think studying arts that deal with joint control/manipulation will therefor be of more benefit to helping this strategy, practiced of course with a blade.
Still, all that been said, it's not a pretty place to be in.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #26
On three occasions, I have kicked the knife from the hands of trained FMA players. Once, from a maestro, my instructor. Its quick and dangerous and probably not practical, yet it shouldn't be entirely ruled out, especially in the land of the ice and snow where we where boots all day.
Yes, if you're unarmed, I think that's nearly always the best approach.
Do disrespect, three out of how many times? A round number would answer the question fine for me.
Thank You
M
MisterMike
Guest
Well, most people can't kick too fast with boots on. But it looks good in the movies I'll admit.
Again, it goes with how much you know yourself and what you can make of the attacker and the situation.
Again, it goes with how much you know yourself and what you can make of the attacker and the situation.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #30
Truth be told, I would never try it on the street because it only works when the knife is low and loose and the other person is hesitating. Its hard to give it a percentage because I've tried it so many times in non-optimal situation. Still, if you see the opponent set up like that, it becomes an option. Give it a try as you practice...have your opponent set up with the old "west side story" knife fighting stance.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Very good post!
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
I managed to kick a knife out of a guy's hand in training as well. It flew up, we both looked up, and then he caught it by the handle in on the way down. Hilarity ensued.
Regards,
Steve
Regards,
Steve
Cruentus
Grandmaster
I think it is worth mentioning here that the conditions under which we train are not always condusive of reality, and we may be able to pull off things in a controlled environment that we would never be able to pull off in an uncontrolled environment (street, battlefield, etc.).
If my training partner isn't paying attention, I may be able to kick the knife out of his hand. I may not see, with a training knife, a cut on my own leg or achilles that could happend in the process of kicking. Plus, in a training hall and with a training blade, I can screw a kick up and get hacked without any worries, where I can't afford this with a real knife. I may have big stompin' boots on in real life, so I may think that this will protect my foot, but it may also slow down my kicking speed and accuracy dramatically, allowing my opponent to close with his knife while I am mid-kick. If I am wearing boots, am I in snow or ice? It would be fatal for me to slip and fall on the ice after trying to kick a knife wielding attacker.
That being said, I wouldn't rule out kicking the knife out of the hand, but I wouldn't recommend it either. Being unsucessful in disarming the attacker with the kick could escalate the situation from bad to worse very quickly, and could prove to be fatal. The above factors need to be considered.
PAUL
Cruentus
Grandmaster
lol:rofl:
Any size can be deadly. You dont have to have a butcher knife for it to cause you some serious damage. Keep in mind, that the little cuts can break the person down just as easy.
Mike
That is something that IMO, should be ruled out. Why risk a move like you'd see in a Van Dam movie?? The Filipinos are some of the best knife fighters that I've seen. With all due respect, I'd have to say that the guy that you did this to didnt know how to fight with a knife very well.
Mike
M
MisterMike
Guest
Thanks Paul.
Of course I left out the intermediary steps of how to get in on a good knife person so you can get to the knife hand.
For this, tactics such as feinting, leading, surprise, agility and overall quickness are going to be paramount. I'm sure I left out a few but you get the idea. These can be learned regardless of style.
On another note...has anyone seen On Deadly Ground? There was this one scene at the oil refinery where a guy was holding the knife with his front hand, around face level and Seagal came around the corner and just rammed it into his face :rofl:
I don't like plugging movies for example, but that was just beautiful.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
What? HOW DARE YOU!!!!
Right now I'm taking the technique to new levels by bearing down with my abs, thereby spitting the broken blade out of my torso and back into the attacker's body. The hard part will be getting the knife to rotate to a point-towards-the-attacker position once I eject it.
I must add, too, that practice is difficult. One has to largely work from theory. But hey...Einstein was a theoretician, and not an experimental physicist. Look at the great things HE achieved.
Regards,
Steve
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Your answer is yes he is kidding.
:rofl:
