Double-ends/speed ball routines for WC

[lansao]

Hey all, anyone else using a speed ball in their training?

Will share some of the drills I work but would love to hear from you all.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have used it for a long time. The training has PRO and COM.

PRO - I can train striking speed.
CON - When I punch, I only use my arms and I don't use much of my body.

IMO, the longer you train with this, the more bad habit (punch with arm without using body) that you may build up.

 

[lansao]

I have used it for a long time. The training has PRO and COM.

PRO - I can train striking speed.
CON - When I punch, I only use my arms and I don't use much of my body.

IMO, the longer you train with this, the more bad habit (punch with arm without using body) that you may build up.

Thanks for the input. Do you ever practice slipping?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thanks for the input. Do you ever practice slipping?

After I started to use "rhino guard", I no longer train "slipping" any more. I train how to move in between my opponent's punches instead of how to dodge those punches.

 

[lansao]

After I started to use "rhino guard", I no longer train "slipping" any more. I train how to move in between my opponent's punches instead of how to dodge those punches.

Interesting, googled that and came up dry. Got roofing materials haha. Any examples of a rhino guard?

 

[Danny T]

Yep use a speed bag and the double end bag as well as wall bags
Slipping our wc is more of a full body move and there is an attack associated with vs just the head or an upperbody & head movement. We move the center of gravity over one foot or the other depending on what is happening. Ducking or a dropping as in a level change is also available if applicable for the situation.
As with all drills there are pros and cons. We use other drills to combat the cons of a different drill

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Any examples of a rhino guard?

 

[lansao]

Yep use a speed bag and the double end bag as well as wall bags
Slipping our wc is more of a full body move and there is an attack associated with vs just the head or an upperbody & head movement. We move the center of gravity over one foot or the other depending on what is happening. Ducking or a dropping as in a level change is also available if applicable for the situation.
As with all drills there are pros and cons. We use other drills to combat the cons of a different drill

Awesome. That sounds like how I learned to slip from these dutch muay thai guys at my gym and how I train it now.

I just add our rear pak into the slip. Bring the lead foot’s knee in on the ball while sinking and keeping upper body posture upright.

 

[lansao]

Ahh, gotcha.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I just add our rear pak into the slip. Bring the lead foot’s knee in on the ball while sinking and keeping upper body posture upright.

When you dodge your head under your opponent's hook (or hay-maker), you need to use the other hand to push on his elbow joint away from your head. This way, his elbow won't strike back on the side of your head, or give you a reverse head lock. The "偏(Pian) – Head circling" is an important CMA principle.

 

[lansao]

When you dodge your head under your opponent's hook (or hay-maker), you need to use the other hand to push on his elbow joint away from your head. This way, his elbow won't strike back on the side of your head, or give you a reverse head lock. The "偏(Pian) – Head circling" is an important CMA principle.

I disagree. I think that rising arm leaves his rib cage wide open to an incoming knee or roundhouse. I’d prefer to slip under the hook at a roughly 45 degree angle and dropping a gut/kidney shot on the way with my right while keeping a reflective angle to prevent that knee from coming in.

 

[pdg]

Personally, I'm really not keen on that.

The interlocking fingers ties up (literally) both your hands.

What happens if the person punching just pulls your hands downward and goes for an overhand?

Or kicks?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I disagree. I think that rising arm leaves his rib cage wide open to an incoming knee or roundhouse. I’d prefer to slip under the hook at a roughly 45 degree angle and dropping a gut/kidney shot on the way with my right while keeping a reflective angle to prevent that knee from coming in.

The raising arm will push his right arm to jam his own back arm, so both of his hands cannot hit you at that moment. You have just used 1 arm to disable his 2 arms. At that close distance. your opponent's knee strike or roundhouse kick may just give you an opportunity for your "single leg" if you are a good wrestler.

When you use left hand to push on your opponent's right elbow joint, you can use

- right hand to push up on his chin (or right uppercut),
- right leg to cut his right leg,

and take/knock him down. Your 1 hand control your opponent's 2 hands situation can give you many options.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The interlocking fingers ties up (literally) both your hands.

What happens if the person punching just pulls your hands downward and goes for an overhand?

Or kicks?

The reason that you interlock your hands is to combine your 2 arms as 1 unit. If you are as strong as your opponent, your 2 arms should be stronger than his 1 arm. If your opponent can pull down your double arms, he can pull down your single arm too.

The rhino guard can't do much for the kick. You still need to use your leg to deal with your opponent's kick.

 

[lansao]

The reason that you interlock your hands is to combine your 2 arms as 1 unit. If you are as strong as your opponent, your 2 arms should be stronger than his 1 arm. If your opponent can pull down your double arms, he can pull down your single arm too.

The rhino guard can't do much for the kick. You still need to use your leg to deal with your opponent's kick.

Oh, I thought this was just demonstrating a principle of deflection. That you would retract one arm with an angled stance to provide layers of protection. Didn’t realize the finger locking was an application.

You can seriously break fingers like that with a direct impact on the “horn.”

 

[Danny T]

The raising arm will push his right arm to jam his own back arm, so both of his hands cannot hit you at that moment. You have just used 1 arm to disable his 2 arms. At that close distance. your opponent's knee strike or roundhouse kick may just give you an opportunity for your "single leg" if you are a good wrestler.

When you use left hand to push on your opponent's right elbow joint, you can use

- right hand to push up on his chin (or right uppercut),
- right leg to cut his right leg,

and take/knock him down. Your 1 hand control your opponent's 2 hands situation can give you many options.

Beware on his spinning fist or elbow if the range is proper or even a side kick.

 

[lansao]

The reason that you interlock your hands is to combine your 2 arms as 1 unit. If you are as strong as your opponent, your 2 arms should be stronger than his 1 arm. If your opponent can pull down your double arms, he can pull down your single arm too.

The rhino guard can't do much for the kick. You still need to use your leg to deal with your opponent's kick.

I think the problem is the opponent gets two arms for the price of one with the fingers interlocked. He doesn’t have to yank either arm down very far to make clearance with both.

Don’t mean to hang up on you Kung Fu Wang, but struggling with some of this.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Oh, I thought this was just demonstrating a principle of deflection. That you would retract one arm with an angled stance to provide layers of protection. Didn’t realize the finger locking was an application.

You can seriously break fingers like that with a direct impact on the “horn.”

You need to learn how to fight with handcuff on.

 

[lansao]

Beware on his spinning fist or elbow if the range is proper or even a side kick.

You can also slip then tuck your head behind his left shoulder to control the elbow from the shoulder joint. Keep left arm guarding face throughout.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Beware on his spinning fist or elbow ...

I don't know how that can be possible. Which arm are you talking about?