Does anyone seriously use chops?

[RTKDCMB]

-Iron Palm
-Iron Bridge
-Iron Jacket
-Iron Head
-Iron Legs
-Iron Feet

Iron Man:

 

[RTKDCMB]

Knife hand strikes are a basic technique in my art, I use them because they are powerful and effective.

 

[Buka]

I was leaving a concert 29 years ago this summer.

Guy in the next row down grabbed my wife's tit.

Palm heeled him in the sternum-knocked him over two rows of seats. Thought I'd killed him, the way he crumbled.

Made my day, that did.

 

[elder999]

I have slapped a few guys. Thats about it.

Proper slaps are pretty vicious. Broke a guy's jaw and knocked him down by slapping him....

As for chops, I hail from a day when (as a child) you could knife-hand the top of opponent's forearm in judo shiai....did it pretty successfully once, and deadened the guy's arm.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

It's funny how you mentioned "slapping" because we did an experiment tonight to show how slapping feels as opposed to punching. One person holds an open hand up like a focus pad (only with their barehand). Another person first punches their hand with a closed fist. Then that same person slaps that same hand with an open palm. It was found that the closed fist punch caused more internal pain down to the bones, but the slap hurt more because it caused more external pain to the skin surface. I use drjlls like this all the time when training.

 

[Buka]

From the movie/documentry "Budo". Good movie, it will make you want to run to the dojo after seeing it, even if it's three in the morning.

I've been hit with a few good shutos. Ruined my whole day.

 

[elder999]

It's funny how you mentioned "slapping" because we did an experiment tonight to show how slapping feels as opposed to punching. One person holds an open hand up like a focus pad (only with their barehand). Another person first punches their hand with a closed fist. Then that same person slaps that same hand with an open palm. It was found that the closed fist punch caused more internal pain down to the bones, but the slap hurt more because it caused more external pain to the skin surface. I use drjlls like this all the time when training.

Yeah....no.

This guy doesn't even step through with the slap, but he doesn't have to. (Like how he puts the guy in the recovery position, too....)

 

[BuckerooBonzai]

I had a full effort inward knife hand strike to my lateral thigh in SERE school and it dropped me like a stone. (They "randomly" chose different students to demonstrate different techniques. I was the lucky one that only got the thigh strike. Some dudes were seriously hurt in that course.) My leg did not work correctly for a few weeks and it did not even leave a mark. Unbelievably powerful technique and it was only on my thigh!

 

[Buka]

Yeah....no.

This guy doesn't even step through with the slap, but he doesn't have to. (Like how he puts the guy in the recovery position, too....)

Heh, heh, heh.
We call that a dope slap. Some of the guys call it a "Jap Slap". (no disrespect intended or implied)

The recovery position is something everyone should know and have.

 

[RTKDCMB]

How many times does that guy need to be told? Just use the damned bottle opener.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Yeah....no.

This guy doesn't even step through with the slap, but he doesn't have to. (Like how he puts the guy in the recovery position, too....)

Why you say no? You disagree with what I said? If so, explain why. All I saw was a video of some guy getting KO'd by a slap (lol btw). But that doesn't disprove what I said. Or does it? I don't understand.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I also use different understanding of certain techniques and principles. My side-palm strikes can be compared almost to a blade-hand chop, only with some difference in delivery. I still consider the side-palm smash as a palm strike, but really I'm using the same blade of my hand to deliver the palm strike, so I can see where the side-chop could be dangerous, if used to target specific soft spots.

 

[elder999]

I also use different understanding of certain techniques and principles. My side-palm strikes can be compared almost to a blade-hand chop, only with some difference in delivery. I still consider the side-palm smash as a palm strike, but really I'm using the same blade of my hand to deliver the palm strike, so I can see where the side-chop could be dangerous.

Welcome to Martial Talk!
(Now I'm going back to bed.....

)

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Welcome to Martial Talk!
(Now I'm going back to bed.....

)
View attachment 20616

.............???

Shuto chop(?) = blade hand chop?
Wong jeong = horizontal palm

CMA and JMA are so similar but so different sometimes. I was just saying that both techniques use the blade of the hand (bottom side or pinky side), just with different deliveries.

 

[oaktree]

It's funny how you mentioned "slapping" because we did an experiment tonight to show how slapping feels as opposed to punching. One person holds an open hand up like a focus pad (only with their barehand). Another person first punches their hand with a closed fist. Then that same person slaps that same hand with an open palm. It was found that the closed fist punch caused more internal pain down to the bones, but the slap hurt more because it caused more external pain to the skin surface. I use drjlls like this all the time when training.

What Elder was saying is that a proper done slap can break someone's jaw. If you slap trees then hitting someone with a slap with the right fa jin can seriously hurt someone.
With a chop the hand should be bent this allows a more tighter chop. Chops should be conditioned. We also use the back of the wrist and back of palm for slaps as they have a whip like motion which is found in both Taijiquan and Baguazhang.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

What Elder was saying is that a proper done slap can break someone's jaw. If you slap trees then hitting someone with a slap with the right fa jin can seriously hurt someone.

With a chop the hand should be bent this allows a more tighter chop. Chops should be conditioned. We also use the back of the wrist and back of palm for slaps as they have a whip like motion which is found in both Taijiquan and Baguazhang.

While it may indeed be possible to break someone's jaw with a slap, I've never personally witnessed such a thing. The guy in that video most likely did not have a broken jaw. He appears to have just been KO'd likely due to having his brain jarred around inside his skull. Internal damage? Maybe. Broken bones? Probably not. Just a nice concussion and some ringing in the ears I bet, with a lot of external pain on the skin surface like I had mentioned before. In any case though, I still think that forearm chops are more effective and cause more potential for a KO or even a kill than normal shuto-chops (blade-hand chops, etc). I say why risk it? Hit hard. Hit fast. Hit first. That's my philosophy. But of course, everyone has their own reason for doing things. I also prefer a normal punch (either half-knuckle overhand like a baseball pitcher, or hooking like the slap in the video) as I find it generates more internal damage than a slap would, with the same jaw breaking potential. It's just more bang for the buck I think. I tend to think of these different fists and hand-shapes in comparison to a shotgun. The slap is more like a spread shot, covering a wider area. The fist is more like a slug shot, focussing all of that same power and concentrating it in one area. While a slap may or may not break someone's jaw, a fist most certainly will. But to each their own, I guess. If I felt like slapping the opponent and I saw an opening for it, I'd probably use it.

 

[frank raud]

It was fake

A brachial stun can drop you but it only stuns you for a half a second.

You are awake and alert almost as soon as hit the ground.

Also it looked like it wasn't in the right spot on the neck to have worked.

What is the right spot?

 

[oaktree]

​

While it may indeed be possible to break someone's jaw with a slap, I've never personally witnessed such a thing. The guy in that video most likely did not have a broken jaw. He appears to have just been KO'd likely due to having his brain jarred around inside his skull. Internal damage? Maybe. Broken bones? Probably not. Just a nice concussion and some ringing in the ears I bet, with a lot of external pain on the skin surface like I had mentioned before. In any case though, I still think that forearm chops are more effective and cause more potential for a KO or even a kill than normal shuto-chops (blade-hand chops, etc). I say why risk it? Hit hard. Hit fast. Hit first. That's my philosophy. But of course, everyone has their own reason for doing things. I also prefer a normal punch (either half-knuckle overhand like a baseball pitcher, or hooking like the slap in the video) as I find it generates more internal damage than a slap would, with the same jaw breaking potential. It's just more bang for the buck I think. I tend to think of these different fists and hand-shapes in comparison to a shotgun. The slap is more like a spread shot, covering a wider area. The fist is more like a slug shot, focussing all of that same power and concentrating it in one area. While a slap may or may not break someone's jaw, a fist most certainly will. But to each their own, I guess.

"Proper slaps are pretty vicious. Broke a guy's jaw and knocked him down by slapping him...."-Elder999
You can easily break someone's neck with a chop, a chop to the throat, chop to the bridge of the nose, chop to the temple, break a rib with a chop.
A slap to both ears can cause serious damage as well. The chop has a longer reach then say a forearm or a fist that is why in Baguazhang we use open hands because in olden days the Baguazhang practitioner would be using knives so a chop was actually a chop a finger jab was a knife thrust. A slap simply means to hit open hand as I said if you train say like Iron palm then the damage is greater but you have to condition the hand. know the correct body mechanics, right focus. A palm strike can generate a lot of power.

 

[CB Jones]

What is the right spot?

We were taught a little further around on the side of the neck and a little higher.

 

[Langenschwert]

.I've found it's better to chop with the blade of your arm (bottom side or forearm) as it's more powerful and safer for your hands. Plus it allows you to still use your hands for other things like grabbing, since the forearm chop can be either a defensive strike, a finishing move, or a setup for some nasty locks and chokes.

I don't know if it's better, but that's how I do it as well, with an oblique Dempsey drop.

You do see some knife hand in the Codex Wallerstein in conjunction with wrestling.